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Thread: What is Chan/zen?

  1. #1

    What is Chan/zen?

    Chan/zen is misused nowadays to promote a service or a product.

    Zen spa, Zen tea, Zen massage, Zen food, Zen dating--

    So what is Chan or Zen?


  2. #2
    In the old time, there will be a room, a garden or some quiet place that one would practice Chan/zen meditation.

    either quieting the mind or focusing on a certain subject in life.

    how to relate one's life experience with other things in the nature.

    so chan is filled with stories or direct experiences.


  3. #3
    its a philosophy and way of looking at life. Some say a lifestyle or religion.

    I still say philosophy but who am I ????????

    wait thats a Zen question... OK never mind
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  4. #4
    My favorite are the 3 stories of Chan.

    1. Throw the stone to ask for the way. Tou Shi Wen Lu.

    a. if you are surrounded by opponents, you throw a stone in one direction to attrack their attention, then you run the other way.

    b. if you are not sure about the enemy positions or number of people, you send a small force to move obviously, to cause them to move. Then you have some idea about their positions and forces.

    c. you taste some sample before you buy the fruits or wines. you test drive the car, before you buy it etc.

    2. Ask the fairy for the way. Xien Ren Zi Lu.

    if we do not know what to do, sometimes we may look for a sign, religion, or some knowledgeable people to lead us to the right way in life or tasks at hand. The more knowledgeable or skillful people or gods are called Xien Ren.

    in the old time, there were no good direction signs or maps. if you are lost in the woods or wild. Legend said there may be a fairy disguised as fisherman, wood chopping man etc and guide you. usually they maybe just the locals.

    3. The blind leading the blind. Mon Ren Dai Lu.

    there are a lot of things we don't fully understand. so after some meditations and experiences in life. we are humbled that we dun really know about life. we may not want to give people the wrong guidance as if a blind man leading another blind man.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ

    So what is Chan or Zen?

    Kill kill kill

    or, if you prefer,

    moo
    Simon McNeil
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  6. #6
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    chan/ zen buddhism is based on the concept of spontaneous enlightenment. the concept permeates in the mahayana buddhism whereas the theravada believe in a process that leads to enlightenment. Enlightenment being similar to the western concept of self actualization as described in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. (or so it has been described to me).

  7. #7
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    nothing...
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.
    ~PangQuan

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

  8. #8
    5 tons of flax!

  9. #9
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    five tons of flax??

    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  10. #10
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    I'm down with that action Gene.

    Now, seriously, Ch'an was more about the transmission of the dharma through unconventional, non-verbal methods than it was about instant enlightenment. The concept of sudden enlightenment is actually present in all of the Mahayana sects of Buddhism. Heck! In Pure Land buddhism all you had to do was recite the name of the right buddha at least once before you died and you would be reborn in the pure land in your next incarnation and on the fast-track to enlightenment. Compared to that Ch'an is really hard work. The argument of Ch'an was that you couldn't talk your way to enlightenment. Instead you had to shock yourself or your students out of the patterns of thought that dominate the ordinary life in order for them to grasp the truths of Buddhism at a more fundamental level. Many tools such as the koans, the bizarre, nonsensical answers to questions and (as Gene pointed out) chemicals could be employed to bring about this shift in consciousness. However once a person is shocked out of those patterns the next step is having a revelatory experience. This is where the use of psychadelics can, as Gene said, slow us down. We might believe ourselves to be on the verge of a revelation after taking a few hits from the bong only to lose any insight we may have gained again when we come back down.

    The Rastafarians don't believe this to be such a problem and so use a mild psychadelic as a religious saccrament despite forgoing red meat and alcohol while most ch'an/zen monks these days forgo the use of hemp for anything except making clothes out of and instead depend more on the more socially acceptable ways of shifting their consciousness... backbreaking hard work, artistry and meditation.
    Last edited by SimonM; 05-19-2006 at 06:18 PM.
    Simon McNeil
    ___________________________________________

    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PangQuan
    nothing...
    there are 2 monks at the side of a stream. A woman came by and needed help to cross the river.

    So the monk A carried the woman across the stream with her permission.

    monk B said why did you carry her? monks are not supposed to be close to the wimmin, is it not?

    monk A said I already put her down and why did you not?

    meaning monk A only thought about helping her. She was not on his mind in the beginning and after they crossed the stream.

    however, monk B is stilling thinking about her even after she left.

    --

    act and intent

    --


  12. #12
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    Good example.
    Simon McNeil
    ___________________________________________

    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  13. #13
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    searching for the meaning of life is like riding an ox...




























    in search of an ox
    Words!


    Just words!


  14. #14
    that is deep but why the space out?


  15. #15
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    its a dramatic pause
    Words!


    Just words!


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