Secret of the Golden Flower?

[DarinHamel]

I was hoping to post some questions about alchemy but I wasn't sure if I would get answers or just flamed for being crazy or something. Is this a good place for the mystical stuff?

[Nexus]

The short story of this is that male sperm is transformed into jing energy which during meditation is channeled up the spine and to the brain (the golden flower) for nourishment.

I won't go into this practice any further since it is better described by the taoist canon. It is usually taught by a teacher passed on from teacher to student. I'm not sure learning it from a book or a website would suffice but it may.

[DarinHamel]

The short story of this is that male sperm is transformed into jing energy which during meditation is channeled up the spine and to the brain (the golden flower) for nourishment.

I won't go into this practice any further since it is better described by the taoist canon. It is usually taught by a teacher passed on from teacher to student. I'm not sure learning it from a book or a website would suffice but it may.

Hey thanks for the quick answer. I have seen the pictures of the tiny body come out of the crown of the head and read about the tiny body coming out the forehead. In my practice the tiny tody came out my forehead.

My question was are these two different events? Did I screw it up somehow? I was hoping that the forehead emergence was the giving birth and then after the twelve years of nurturing (3 years) and training (9 years) of the baby shen it comes out the crown of the head.

Since the tiny body came out of my forehead in 1994 the twelve year mark is this year and if I screwed it up somewhere along the line I dont know if I have the umphhh to do it again.

[neilhytholt]

Hey thanks for the quick answer. I have seen the pictures of the tiny body come out of the crown of the head and read about the tiny body coming out the forehead. In my practice the tiny tody came out my forehead.

My question was are these two different events? Did I screw it up somehow? I was hoping that the forehead emergence was the giving birth and then after the twelve years of nurturing (3 years) and training (9 years) of the baby shen it comes out the crown of the head.

Since the tiny body came out of my forehead in 1994 the twelve year mark is this year and if I screwed it up somewhere along the line I dont know if I have the umphhh to do it again.

Please note that I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but how do you know a tiny tody (body) came out of your forehead?

[DarinHamel]

Please note that I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but how do you know a tiny tody (body) came out of your forehead?

LOL- Valid question and a funny one too.

I felt an uprush of energy in meditation and it felt like I was flying upwards through a dark tunnel. At the end of the tunnel I felt myself coming out of my forehead and my physical body at the same time. I was seeing through the eyes of the tiny body. As far as feelings go it was kinda like if you expand your fingers out you can feel your fingers better and not lose awareness of your hand. I felt myself inhabiting a tiny body coming out of my forehead and didn't lose awareness of my physical body.

I guess thats the best way of explaining it. I still haven't decided whether or not it was an objective event or some strange psychological experience.

[neilhytholt]

I felt an uprush of energy in meditation and it felt like I was flying upwards through a dark tunnel. At the end of the tunnel I felt myself coming out of my forehead and my physical body at the same time. I was seeing through the eyes of the tiny body. As far as feelings go it was kinda like if you expand your fingers out you can feel your fingers better and not lose awareness of your hand. I felt myself inhabiting a tiny body coming out of my forehead and didn't lose awareness of my physical body.

Dang ... I'm always jealous when people talk about their experiences. I was in some Zen group once and everybody was sitting, and at one point this guy started shaking a little bit, and then was just like completely unconscious. They sortof talked him back awake. The old timers there said they were totally jealous of him and said they couldn't believe it was his first time??? I never talked to him though about what happened to him during that time.

[DarinHamel]

Dang ... I'm always jealous when people talk about their experiences. I was in some Zen group once and everybody was sitting, and at one point this guy started shaking a little bit, and then was just like completely unconscious. They sortof talked him back awake. The old timers there said they were totally jealous of him and said they couldn't believe it was his first time??? I never talked to him though about what happened to him during that time.

Don't be jealous. I was turned down for the Catholic priesthood back in 1987. But the "calling" was valid so here I am years later basically living like a monk without the emotional support you get from living in a religious community. On the good side nobody can tell me what to read or not to read so I have a good understanding of not just Catholic mysticism but Taoist, Jewish and a few others. Still when it comes to the bodies it seems information is thin or just doesnt jibe with I have experienced. Bummer...

[neilhytholt]

Don't be jealous. I was turned down for the Catholic priesthood back in 1987. But the "calling" was valid so here I am years later basically living like a monk without the emotional support you get from living in a religious community. On the good side nobody can tell me what to read or not to read so I have a good understanding of not just Catholic mysticism but Taoist, Jewish and a few others. Still when it comes to the bodies it seems information is thin or just doesnt jibe with I have experienced. Bummer...

Well communities have problems. People tend to get their egos in a twist, so to speak.

[TenTigers]

I have circulated the small heavenly cycle with a woman during/after orgasm, and the two times I did it, the woman had such a rush of energy for the next day, they both asked me if I "did something to them". I did not "steal" her energy, I simply mingled mine with hers. Evidently, it was liike increasing the water pressure through a waterwheel attached to a turbine or dynamo. It revved them up. Funny, often the chakras are looked at as wheels, which spin.
Anyone else have these experiences?

ps-I know of one guy who used to try to steal his GF's orgasm energy as well. She caught on, and dumped him. She's a Taoist, he was into Crowley -figures.

[neilhytholt]

I have circulated the small heavenly cycle with a woman during/after orgasm, and the two times I did it, the woman had such a rush of energy for the next day, they both asked me if I "did something to them". I did not "steal" her energy, I simply mingled mine with hers. Evidently, it was liike increasing the water pressure through a waterwheel attached to a turbine or dynamo. It revved them up. Funny, often the chakras are looked at as wheels, which spin.
Anyone else have these experiences?

ps-I know of one guy who used to try to steal his GF's orgasm energy as well. She caught on, and dumped him. She's a Taoist, he was into Crowley -figures.

Dang, I don't get to do anything anymore. You guys have the life. Maybe a bus can hit me on the way to work tomorrow and put me out of my misery.

Edit. Anyways I guess I shouldn't want that because I'd probably just wind up in a hospital bed with tubes sticking out of me, it wouldn't finish me off.

But seriously, no, and the aliens never talked to me, either. Why does everybody else get to have all the fun?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi DarinHamel,

Keep in mind that the descriptions are merely metaphorical. They state what a specific experience or phenomenon is “LIKE” not what it actually “IS”. The description is not the thing! Do not try to force your experiences to fit into a predetermined form described by others. Each person’s experiences will be unique to them, but are also similar to those who have gone before. The descriptions provided are merely a guide to help identify and categorize inherently un-catorizable experiences.

An experience in and of itself is no true measure of development. It is the transformation of our being, our perspective, the manner in which we view phenomena, and the manner in which we manifest that internal transformation in our daily lives that is the true measure of growth. Pursuit of experiences can become a distraction and may cause pitfalls one must eventually overcome to continue progress!

Experiences are no different than if I practice to perform a backwards somersault and one day when I am finally able to perform one I am proud of myself. I am happy I finally achieved my goal, but in the end it is only a backwards somersault. It does not make me a better person. A skill is merely a skill; it is not a measure of maturity or insight! This is where many who follow such inclinations stumble. Some may confuse possessing an ability or having an experience with maturity and become proud, arrogant or self-satisfied, which are stumbling blocks that must be transcended in order for progress to continue unimpeded.

Your experiences are interesting however. Please feel free to continue sharing them!

[DarinHamel]

Thanks Scott. In my opinion The Secret of the Golden Flower has a section on "confirmatory signs" as do most mystical books because they are pretty objective. Obviously there will be differences like a book describing male puberty. There will be differences but I will be able to tell if I have undergone puberty or not by referencing the book. I do understand your concerns and I appreciate them.

I understand also that a tiny spiritual body coming out of your might seem metaphorical, but thats only until it happens to you. It is also a level of Taoist Alchemical development called "Giving Birth to Baby Shen". There are levels to these things and we can grade ourselves just like a black belt is more advanced than a green belt.

neilhytholt-I've never seen a UFO either.

[neilhytholt]

Yeah, I'm totally p*ssed about the UFO thing. The only thing that I ever ran into was one night I was out hiking around midnight in this big state park after hours (you're not supposed to go there after dark).

Anyways, suddenly this plane cruised over about 50 feet above me, going really slow, like 100 miles an hour or less, scared the living crap out of me. It looked like an F-18, but it was almost totally silent. It cruised out right over the hilltop and down into the city below. Weird stuff.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi DarinHamel,

Yes, I agree with you, internal transformation will likely involve physical changes as well. I also agree that since the subconscious mind communicates with imagery and metaphor these physical changes may be expressed in a symbolic manner within the mind.

What I mean to say is, the lack of an identifying experience does not necessarily indicate a lack of accomplishment/attainment, but neither does the presence of an identifying experience necessarily indicate a sign of progress. An experience is an experience, it is how we choose to define/interpret it that gives it meaning to us and it is this meaning that creates the value of the experience.

The time frame you have indicated for the process you are engaging in should be considered a general frame of reference, similar to an average time period. For some individuals it may actually occur in 6 years while for others it may take 20 years. The lack of an identifying experience may not necessarily be an indication of the lack of your progress, but in the end it is the internal transformation one should be working towards and not the identifying experience. Looking for the identifying experience could indicate that your focus is too much on transient phenomena and not enough on personal transformation. If we place inordinate value on identifying experiences, when they don’t occur we could be creating a circumstance where discouragement results. It isn’t the lack of the experience that is the problem then, but the inordinate value we have placed upon it.

[DarinHamel]

What I mean to say is, the lack of an identifying experience does not necessarily indicate a lack of accomplishment/attainment, but neither does the presence of an identifying experience necessarily indicate a sign of progress. An experience is an experience, it is how we choose to define/interpret it that gives it meaning to us and it is this meaning that creates the value of the experience.

I have heard the same thing from some of my Catholic spiritual directors my entire life. It was the monastics who were more familiar with judging spiritual growth which they did seperate from the growth of the so called "psychic" abilities or events.

But I believe that spiritual growth is as objective as physical growth. People do progress at somewhat different speeds but all growth follows a pattern and the same general time periods as does psychological growth. Both physical and psychological growth have "milestone markers" that you can use to judge progress.

Since we are a unity of body, mind and spirit why seperate the spirit from them and say that it is governed by different rules of maturation?

Scott, thanks for making me think.