Secret of the Golden Flower?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi DarinHamel,

Thank you too for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Just so you are aware I am not a Catholic priest, LOL!!

My studies are primarily Zen, Hinduism, Christianity and philosophical Taoism.

Your view makes sense; however it cannot be demonstrated to be universally true. It seems to be somewhat factual for “some” of those following a specific program or system, but even within a specific system it does not seem to occur universally among the adherents. For your perspective to hold true it would be required in “every” instance for “every” individual. Zen is rife with Sudden/Spontaneous Realizations. Hui-Neng, the 6th patriarch of Ch’an for instance had an immediate spontaneous transformation after hearing the Diamond Sutra one time! This would seem to be in contradiction with your expectations!

Any attempt to demonstrate a consistent process would create a dead formulaic system. This is because it would require adherents to conform to a fixed program rather than have a program formulated for each individual’s uniqueness. The fixed program might not actually be the method followed, but it would have to be a fixed system of measure. Once we require conformity, we lose freedom. A round peg is required to fit into a square hole in order for an individual’s unique experience to be held as valid within that system. The individual would not be allowed to interpret an identifying experience according to their own temperament, that is, find their own meaning. They would be required to re-define the experience according the rules of the system in order for his experience to be validated within the system. This circumstance would not cultivate growth; it would stifle growth because unique experiences would be required to conform to an external measure. Those valid and meaningful experiences that don’t conform would be ignored and valuable insight and lessons would be lost!

Buddhist and Hindu literature suggests that successful systems use what are called “useful expedients”. Useful expedients are tools used to transform an individual’s personal perspective from a limited point of view to an unlimited or lesser limited point of view. This is the message of the “White Ox-Drawn Vehicle” metaphor found in the Lotus Sutra.

A man finds his house on fire. He tries to call his children outside to safety. The children are so engrossed in their games and toys that they don’t respond to the father’s entreaties. So the father uses an expedient to get the children outside. He promises them better toys if they will just come outside. Each child is promised a specific toy according to their own unique temperament. One is promised a goat cart, one a deer cart and one an ox cart. Once they come outside the father gives them an even better cart than he promised and it is harnessed to a great white ox.

This story is a metaphor for preparatory teachings that are used to indicate truth in a manner conducive to an individual’s inclinations, needs, temperament and personal ability. The tools of the expedient are to be modified, replaced with others or discarded all together as one progresses towards Truth. Each person has their own unique personality and therefore is best served by a method (useful expedient) conducive to their personality. This is also discussed somewhat in the Bhagavad-Gita.

It is clear that there are somewhat universal archetypes held within the psyche of man. There are common themes found in the myths from every culture expressing universal human experiences. So from that perspective it would seem that your view must hold some validity, but to insist it holds universal validity appears to be in error. Error occurs then, when we require our personal experiences to conform to a pre-determined process that is meant to be a loose guide rather than a fixed scheme.

I have known intimately numerous individuals that possess psychic abilities and had unique experiences yet demonstrated NO measure of personal insight, enhanced development, superior ethical conduct or character. One was an American Indian Medicine Man with whom I was an apprentice for a short period of time!

[DarinHamel]

Your absolutely right (and a million times smarter than me BTW). I think we were just talking about different things. I don't believe "alchemy" has anything to do with enlightenment or a persons spiritual level even though there are spiritual aspects to it.

I'm sorry, I was using "spiritual growth" when I should have been using another term. I dont even like the body, mind, spirit way of talking about this stuff. I prefer feeling, intellect and will.

-anyway-
My original question was are these two different events? I have seen the pictures of the tiny body come out of the crown of the head and read about the tiny body coming out the forehead. In my practice the tiny tody came out my forehead. Actually it did come out of my forehead again exactly three years later to the day. But the second time it was really wispy and weak.

Did I screw it up somehow? I was hoping that the forehead emergence was the giving birth and then after the twelve years of nurturing (3 years) and training (9 years) of the baby shen it comes out the crown of the head.

Since the tiny body came out of my forehead in 1994 the twelve year mark is this year and if I screwed it up somewhere along the line I dont know if I have the umphhh to do it again.

Using what you know about Taoism or Taoist alchemy what's going on?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

I am not sure if you are addressing me here, but I have pretty much stated my view, which is I think you have misunderstood the meaning of the metaphor/allegory. If you take it too literally then you confine your experience to your expectations, your misunderstanding and the limitations you accept. Since you are insistent that your experiences must conform to the system you follow you have artificially limited your experience and are likely to misinterpret the experiences you do have. You seem to have an emotional investment in having this specific experience. If this is so you could potentially subconsciously create an artificial experience or reinterpret an unrelated experience to conform to your expectations.

I have known individuals that have done just that. From their view they have achieved an attainment or ability, but for those on the outside looking in, those with a bit more insight, it is clear they have convinced themselves they have attained something they emotionally NEED to experience. This illusion breeds spiritual pride and is a hindrance to true transformation of being. This then becomes a stumbling block that interferes with any true progress. From my view it could be the seeming preoccupation you have and the emotional investment in a superficial experience that may be interfering with the progress you desire.

No one can make the assessment you request because we don’t know your internal state of being which is what influences your progress. Alchemy is merely a metaphor for transforming an individual’s state of being. It isn’t a physical transformation; it is a transformation of mind! It isn’t the action or method you practice that is the determining factor it is the condition of your mind. Exercises are merely tools used to facilitate this internal transformation. Trying harder or practicing more diligently will not help if your mind is in error. This is why the time period is not an absolute, but merely a general guide. I can say if you view your practice as too difficult to repeat it doesn’t seem worth the effort in the first place.

It appears you are working toward outward attainment rather inner development. If this is the case, even if you did have the identifying experience you seek it would not necessarily mean anything because it won’t necessarily indicate what you think it will.

[DarinHamel]

Scott,
I can't say I disagree with anything you say. Have you ever had an out-of-body experience though? I had them spontaneously for seven years. At the end they were driving me a little nutty. The experiences I use to mark progress are in other systems too. I would not have taken them literally if they didn't happen to me literally.

For example, when I heard that the universe was made of living light I thought it was just a metaphorical statement. That is until 1994 when I intensified my Tai Chi practice to end my out-of-body-experiences once and for all. By June I was up to eight to ten hours a day which included Taoist Immortality exercises (alchemy). On weekends it would even extend into the twelve to sixteen hour range.

Then in July 27th on a walk in the woods, my mind exploded into the universe. Looking at the trees did not reveal leaves and bark. I saw explosions of fiery, living, golden light. It began where the seeds sprouted originally. The explosions then flowed upwards and downwards forming the tree. The dark gravel trail became a stream of glowing gemstones. It was like I woke up and was seeing reality for the first time.

For someone who has not been "there" I can imagine why some would think that talking about the world as uncreated light and all connected at soul level would seem like some sort of hazy metaphor. But I have been "there" so I take many metaphors and true and have experienced them as true also, such as the tiny body being nurtured for three years, but then ground to void over a nine year period of "facing the wall listening to the ants scream" and the practice of "being the calm center amidst the chaos of activity" which are symbolic.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

I am not intending to diminish your experiences or their meaning for you. I am attempting to point out that the acquisition of abilities, experiences and/or skills do not always follow a specific order or time period and have no necessary bearing on ones ethical/spiritual maturity. Some individuals have a greater talent for psychic abilities and experiences than others. Some people confuse psychic abilities and experiences with spiritual development. While some with spiritual maturity/insight do acquire psychic abilities and have transcendent experiences, others do not, may have similar ones, or may have different ones. I have known more people with psychic abilities and experiences or what they considered psychic abilities and experiences with very little maturity/insight than I have known with psychic ability/experiences and superior maturity. In fact most were decidedly immature socially and spiritually! Most of the people I have known displayed a self-important attitude often referred to as spiritual pride. These individuals confused psychic ability/experiences with spiritual development. Their unhealthy attitude impedes true personal development.

The Golden Flower treatise is an allegory that outlines one of the many methods for cultivating spirit (a useful expedient), not the development of psychic ability. It does outline some transcendent experiences similar to those you have had; however the experiences alone do not automatically endow one with spiritual insight or maturity. Information must be integrated into ones being, so to speak, to provide long lasting transformative benefits.

The Golden Flower treatise is excessively metaphorical IMO. The same information can and has been communicated in a much more understandable fashion from other authors. Because it is translated from ancient Chinese many of the allegorical references could be difficult for modern people to understand completely. Some allegorical references in these ancient texts require an understanding of the historical context and culture in which they are written. It seems to be pretty clear to me on its main points, but experience has taught me that when it comes to metaphorical language it is easy to misunderstand a point. This is because culture influences the meaning of its metaphors. What may indicate one thing to the modern mind may mean something entirely different to an individual living 2,000 years ago! Therefore it is easy to misunderstand the author’s original intent when we do not understand the cultural and historical milieu of the writer.

While there is some overlap in training modalities between the cultivation of the spirit and psychic ability/experiences, for the most part psychic ability /experiences and spiritual development may be trained or developed separately. They are not necessarily inextricably entwined.

Many spiritual masters counsel against preoccupation with psychic ability/experiences when it is ones purpose to develop their spirit as it can become a preoccupation that creates impediments to progress. On the other hand, if it is of interest for an individual or they demonstrate an aptitude for psychic ability/experiences there is no need to avoid its development as long as it is kept within the proper perspective. One of the examples I use is the basketball player Michael Jordan. His expertise is basketball and in his day he was arguably the best in the world. His basketball ability is a skill/talent, and nothing more. People do not go to Michael Jordan requesting advice on spiritual matters because of his expertise in basketball. This is because there is no necessary confluence between a skill and spiritual development, yet many people erroneously believe there to be a connection between psychic ability/experiences (a skill or talent) and advanced spiritual development. It is not so with basketball and it is not so with psychic ability/experiences. A skill or talent is merely a skill or talent and nothing more.

I have had my fair share of unusual psychic experiences. I have even had some training as a psychic and as a shaman which are inherently similar. My wife is highly psychic and can speak to the seemingly dead and/or spirits/angels whenever she wishes. Mostly she wishes not to because she finds it too demanding on her. I neither seek nor avoid experiences. I can have them whenever I choose, but I do not seek them because it is a path that does not lead to my goal. When they occur spontaneously they fascinate me and I consider the message they have to teach, but if they do not occur I am not concerned.

The experience you mention is a very profound one and I agree it is similar to those expressed by others. Perhaps TaiChiBob will be kind enough to reprise his somewhat similar experience for us.

It is not my intention to negate your experience or diminish it in any way. It was a clear spiritual experience! However, it is not the experience that is important, but its meaning; how it has transformed your life for your greater benefit that is of significance. In other words it is the information provided by the experience, how you have interpreted the information and experience, and how you have applied the information for the improvement of yourself that is of true value. If it has provided you with no real benefit it is merely just another experience like any other we have in life.

These experiences, for some, do mark a stage of development, but it is not necessarily so. For example, there are those who have had the same experience yet do not have the doubts that you seem to have expressed on this thread. I am not intending to insult you or diminish your experience and I want to be delicate with your feelings here. I am just one person expressing thoughts according to my experiences and insight. It is my intention to help, not hurt. So please do not take offense if I share my honest thinking concerning your experience. It is an experience that seems to have had a very transformative effect on you. You observed first hand the connectedness of all things. This is an experience to be treasured. However, what has it done for you personally? Has it transformed your perspective on life and existence in a manner that has increased your sense of personal value? Has it made you a better person? Can you easily repeat the experience and if and when doing so does it provide you with insights into yourself and creation that increase the overall quality/value of your life?

These are the consequences/results that would demonstrate the quality and benefit of your experience.

I am happy to continue our discussion if you so desire. This is one of the most fascinating discussions I have participated in, in a long time; if you choose not to continue our discussion that is fine too. I do hope TaiChiBob will share with you his transformative experience and share the insights and benefits he has gained. I think it would be of some benefit.

[DarinHamel]

I was hoping I wasn't going to scare you away. Yeah lets continue with another mystical model.

Death-3 days in tomb-Resurrection-50 days until-Descent of the Holy Spirit

I noticed a three day period early on with a *ahem* almost wet dream and what St Teresa calls rapture or some kundalini rising. It would be one night I would sublimate the sexual essence and three days later during meditation I would have an experience of feeling like I was being pulled upward through a tunnel.

Now this is significant because of the experience we've been discussing relates to this. It all started with a sublimating sexual essence (death) then three days later the tiny body coming out of the forehead (resurrection) and then exactly fifty days later the world is light event.

So this is another timed schedule but clearly allegorical but with an exact correlation to what I experienced. I am not so arrogant to think I am the only one or that the universe is so random that things just had to line up for someone and so why not me.

The Kaballah too has the tree of life of the stages of spiritual growth. What I know best is Catholic and Taoist. I have been getting a little disturbed recently because watching some programs on Egyptian temple got me seeing the same mystical symbolism as is in my local church. It is all about alchemy. Maybe its a function of sacred geometry to point out what you are already looking for.

(As a side note-Do you know sacred geometry? I was blown away when I realized Tai Chi was full of the spirals and numbers of life. It seems much more pure than that seen in the Luxor temple in Egypt, the Great Temple at Anghor Wat or in my local Catholic church. Thats another thing that disturbs me.)

All this points to a consistent method of developing the total human being with confirmatory signs. Its a map. Why would you think I would confuse mile markers with the destination? I want to get to Downtown and I know three land marks that are supposed to be on the road. I see the first two but now I stop and ask directions because I think I have gone too far and ask about the third. But you tell me I am getting lost in the landmarks? Or that the landmarks change from person to person? Or the first two landmarks I did see were wrong?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

You may find some useful direction at the link below. The previous art director had better taste, but.. the text is consistent with the instruction i have been blessed to receive.. Navigate the pages on the left of the screen...

http://sivasakti.com/

Be Well..

[DarinHamel]

Greetings..

You may find some useful direction at the link below. The previous art director had better taste, but.. the text is consistent with the instruction i have been blessed to receive.. Navigate the pages on the left of the screen...

http://sivasakti.com/

Be Well..

Sweet Holy Mother of God! I dont mean to offend or act like a prude but maybe a warning before sending me to a tantra site? I am a no sex before marraige christian, one of those conservative types you have no doubt heard about. No tantra sites for me.

So what was the experience that Scott said you had TaiChiBob?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

I do not mean to imply you are getting lost in the landmarks. I am intending to caution you not too. Please remember I know essentially nothing about you, only what you have typed here. I can only discuss cautions and topics and situations of which I have some knowledge. I can only understand what you explain to me. If my impression is wrong I rely upon you to correct my impression.

I am fascinated by the fact that your experiences are conforming strictly to the time periods outlined. I think I understand your concern now. Your personal experiences seem to have ALWAYS conformed to the time period specified by the system you follow so naturally you would wonder, why not now? All I can say is in my experience everything comes in its own time. Nothing else in life conforms strictly to a predetermined time line. It is not a natural process of Tao to have a strict timeline for anything. Puberty for example occurs around the same time for most individuals, however if we observe the process closely we would see that within that time period there is wide variation. I had a friend in high school that did not even start puberty until he was over 18 while I had another friend that had completed his transition by aged 14. At age 14 he had more hair on his body than I have now, LOL!! So by observing life/Tao we see signs everywhere that there is no fixed time period for anything. I cannot guarantee how long it would take you to bench press 300# or to memorize a specific item. There is personal variation for everything based upon an individual’s unique temperament, inclinations, motivations, genetic make up, etc.

It seems reasonable to question your method and wonder if you have miscalculated or done something incorrectly. It is possible that your experiences are so conforming because you expect them too, or it may just be you happen to conform strictly to the specified time by your nature. You appear to be very dedicated.

I would recommend introspecting into your own mind and evaluate yourself; be patient and wait to see what happens. I don’t think I have anything else to offer you because your strict adherence to the timelines specified by your practice is outside my personal experience and insight. Please be sure to let us know if your expected outcome does occur and when I would be fascinated to know about it.

[DarinHamel]

Going along the Christian modality then I am past due. Going on the Taoist one I am due on June 4-10 or the end of July.

I have struggled with Tao vs Christ in my mind for years. Its even in my dreams where I die and have to choose an after life building that looks like a dojo or a church.

I decided to let life pick it last year and which ever model was the accurate one I would throw myself completely into. What if both are wrong?

Am I the only one who constantly obsesses on spiritual matters? I meditate 4hours a day. I go to mass every day. I practice Tai Chi every day. I continually read the various worlds spiritual classics. I have no interest in dating. I dont have a TV. It seems that nothing matters but God to me. All my life people tell me there is more to life than God. I have never believed them.

[Nexus]

It is not a natural process of Tao to have a strict timeline for anything.

Scott, can you elaborate on that? For example, while it may not be a natural process of the tao, perhaps it is an unnatural process of the tao? Or must all processes of the tao be natural ones?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

I don’t think it is fair for anyone else to define your life for you. It is up to you to find your own path. While your dedication is not common behavior it is not necessarily abnormal where abnormal is defined as unhealthy behavior.

It is not what you do, but why you do it that determines whether it is unhealthy or not. If you are running away from life then it could be considered unhealthy. In this case your dedication could be a coping mechanism you are using to avoid unpleasant experiences of life. Rather than learning to cope with life you may be avoiding experiences that will allow you to grow in other ways. However, if it is a coping mechanism that is also a benefit in some manner then it is certainly better than watching TV all day, getting drunk, using drugs, partying all the time or going nuts because you have no other effective coping mechanism. In other words, if the benefits out weigh the detriments then it is providing a net good for you, but it is up to you to determine this for yourself. One way to help you identify you motivations is to introspect into your mind when you have a choice to train or attended another activity. If you choose to train because you are avoiding the activity then your training may be an escape from life. If you choose to train because attaining your goal is more important than the other activity then what you are doing is exercising self-discipline.

If your dedication is due to your natural inclination or interest then why would it be any different than anyone else pursuing their interests? An Olympic athlete may spend 8-14 hours a day pursuing their activity of choice. The gains they achieve have limits; they are transient benefits that pass away with time. Spiritual gains are eternal. That is why the Bible says store your treasures in heaven, not on earth.

There is also such a thing as over doing it. Life occurs in ebbs and flows; Yin and Yang cycles. I personally refer to it as equilibrium (balance) versus disequilibrium (imbalance). Growth is stimulated by disequilibrium. When we experience disequilibrium it is uncomfortable, unpleasant and this motivates us to regain our equilibrium. Equilibrium stimulates growth by motivating change, a change within us that is hopefully for the better. If we didn’t change we would not regain the balance we seek. So disequilibrium motivates us to change, but we must choose a change that benefits us not one that hinders growth. So for example if a person chooses to deal with their disequilibrium by getting drunk to numb the discomfort, this can be seen as a non-productive change since it does not involve growth for personal betterment. A simpler way to explain all of this is to say, stress causes change! Change equals growth. But after growth come rest which occurs during the return to balance.

After equilibrium is regained there follows a period of rest; equilibrium is rest. This appears to be a period of non-activity, but it is actually time where the lessons gained from the period of disequilibrium are fermented, strengthened and internalized into our being. Following a period of balance another destabilizing event will occur to motivate further change. If we push ourselves too hard for too long we fall into a state similar to physical overtraining, but in this case it is emotional overtraining. When this occurs we lose ground because we force a continuous disequilibrium that exceeds our endurance causing a ccondition that reduces or reverses growth.

There is no reason to choose between Christianity and Taoism. Both are merely useful expedients. They are methods of developing spirit. Neither is better or worse than the other and both may be misapplied, misunderstood and abused. If an individual truly understood the deepest meanings of the major religions they would discover they all seek to achieve the same purpose. The surface rules and rituals are for the many who do not have the aptitude for deeper meanings. Each religion merely uses different tools (rituals) and metaphor according to the culture from which they originated. They are just different fingers pointing to the same moon. Tools, the finger pointing to the moon, become unnecessary, once we discover the moon.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Ben,

LOL!!! Good question!

It all depends upon which perspective one chooses to view the processes of Tao. On a grand scale, the scale of the Absolute, there are no unnatural processes. It is impossible for something to occur outside Tao; therefore all phenomena are part of Tao and a natural process.

On a local level, the level of human experience, we may speak of natural and un-natural processes. This is merely and expedient or perhaps you could call it a technicality that is used to describe processes that follow or do not follow the principles of tzu-jan and wu-wei which are characteristics of natural, non-forced spontaneously arising phenomena. From this perspective one may push the river which while may not actually be out of accord with Tao from the Absolute perspective, it could be considered un-natural in that the act does not accommodate itself to a non-forced, spontaneously arising process.

It appears to be a paradox and in a sense it is but it is all a matter of perspective. Think of it in terms of clouds in the sky. They are merely clouds, but my mind may project onto the clouds a recognizable image. The nature of clouds is to form spontaneously following the principles of the nature of hydrology, tzu-jan and wu-wei. The forms I perceive when looking at the clouds are a natural process of my mind. The natural process of clouds is to be inherently without geometrically identifiable shape. It is a natural process of the mind to form coherent images out of seeming incoherent shapes. While it is un-natural from this perspective for clouds to spontaneously form coherent geometrical shapes, it is natural for the mind to perceive them through projection onto the cloud from within itself. While it is natural for clouds to form incoherent shapes is it un-natural for the mind to not project onto the cloud from within itself. Even if the mind does not project a coherent geometric image it will still spontaneously attempt to form a geometric consistency. This is because it is the nature of the mind to do so.

This is a difficult topic to describe and I am not sure I done so adequately, but I hope it is understandable.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Ben again,

I have had a chance to get some sleep so let me try again from a different perspective.

Let us say a tragic event has occurred. Let us say a parent loses their child. The “natural” tendency of a human is to react by crying due to this loss. This natural human reaction occurs due to the emotional attachment of the parent which creates the sense of loss when the child dies and this motivates tears to express the sense of loss. So when a parent loses a child crying is a natural response. Not crying while uncommon is not necessarily un-natural because it may also be a coping mechanism wherein the person numbs their feelings because the emotions are too large to handle. However, if one feels the impulse to cry and forces themselves NOT to cry, from one perspective this would be an un-natural act. In this circumstance un-natural would mean to go against a spontaneously arising expression of emotion. Since crying is a healthy expression of intense emotion the act of forcing oneself not to cry could be viewed as unhealthy and therefore un-natural. Since it is a tendency for humans to seek their own higher good and they are ignoring a process that brings into being this higher good it may also be seen to be un-natural from that perspective as well.

Now, due to a person’s temperament it may common for them to suppress their emotions, in other words it may be a natural process of their temperament to resist spontaneous expressions of emotion. So in this instance the suppression of emotion may be a natural act for this individual in that they are following their personality inclinations. However, since the act involves forcing emotions down against their natural tendency to be expressed it is inherently un-natural from one perspective while natural to the individual from another.

To a person viewing the tragic event from the Absolute perspective the impulse to cry “because” of the tragic event would not necessarily occur. This would be because the event is perceived from a perspective of understanding that no one actually died; death is a natural occurrence of life, the spirit is eternal, etc. This act of not crying would be considered natural because the same event is viewed from a different perspective and under this circumstance the need for emotional expression most likely would not occur as a reaction to the death. However, this person MAY still cry. In this circumstance the crying might be caused by compassion for the sense of loss experienced by those who are unable to perceive the event from the Absolute perspective. This occurs to me at times in my practice of Nursing. When I have a patient that dies, I am many time relieved for the patient. Perhaps they were in pain, perhaps they were ready to die, perhaps they were in a vegetative state, etc. I perceive the death as a release for the patient from their suffering. However, the family members who suffer the loss perceive the event as the loss of their beloved family member. When witnessing their pain and sorrow I am often moved to tears out of compassion for the pain they are experiencing.

These illustrations demonstrate to us that an act, event or process is natural or un-natural according to the perspective one chooses to view it and the reason or motivation behind "why' the event or process occured. Sometimes when we use the term natural we are referring to “common” processes. That is, what is most likely to occur as observed over time. If an event occurs outside the anticipate time period and is statistically unlikely to have occurred we may refer to the event as un-natural from that perspective, but once again from the perspective of the Absolute, just the fact the event occurred means it occurred naturally.

My statement: “It is not a natural process of Tao to have a strict timeline for anything” refers to processes of growth as observed over time. The example I gave of puberty is an example that illustrates the point. While puberty occurs at a generally consistent period of time within the lives of all animals, it does not occur at the “SAME” time for “ALL” individuals. Within a general time period there is a wide fluctuation as illustrated by my two high school friends who had widely differing times of puberty. One was essentially done by aged 14 while the other didn’t even begin until around 18.

In Taoist thought acts are considered un-natural when they occur out of accord with the principles of wu-wei and tzu-jan. Wu-wei may be simplistically defined as “without effort” or according to the path of least resistance, while Tzu-jan may be simplistically defined as occurring naturally, or of its own nature. According to these principles, an act that does not occur naturally is one that is contrived, that is artificially modified by an act of will. Under this definition only man or sentient beings (as far as we know) may behave out of accord with Tao. This is because we have a will that allows us to choose actions there are contrary to the natural spontaneous flow of Tao. Within this we may consider a sub-set view that it is a natural expression of man to act against the flow of Tao and therefore it is actually a natural act and not an un-natural act to behave against the flow of Tao. This is a return to the Absolute perspective. At any rate an illustration of an act out of accord with Tao, a contrived or artificial act, would be to suspend ones time of puberty using artificial means such as drugs or to stimulate the arising of puberty using artificial drugs. Since the body has a natural process and that process is artificially tampered with, in this case without an imperative medical need for it, the act may be seen as contrived, out of accord with Tao and un-natural.

[DarinHamel]

Scott,
That last post was brilliant. What do you do for a living? Are you a serious Taoist? Whats your educational background?

"Natural vs Un-natural has always been my test of truth for things. I put things back to and try to imagine "If I was on a deserted island my entire life what would I do?" It seems that some forms of meditation/practice would happen naturally and others would not. Although I never want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, or the immortal child with the purification ritual as the case may be.

When I was living alone in the woods and practicing meditation/Taiji for hours upon hours I was getting realizations/revelations about nature/natural-ness. I think I was getting tuned to Tao.

But the money ran out and now I am living in Detroit and still practicing meditation/Taiji for hours upon hours and I now get revelations/realizations on Egypt-Masonic connected conspiracies and all sorts of other crap. The past couple years I have really delved into the Catholic Way and meditate only in a Church with great sacred architecture. But now I am seeing connections and coorospondences everywhere I look nowadays to a world wide conspiracy. Even though I know its not real I still see it.

I just put in for a few weeks off in August to go commune with a Northern Michigan state forest. Next week I am going up for four day weekend (crazy this weekend) just for a brief hello. I think environment is king with regards to mysicism. We project too much of ourselves on the world and cities inflate the ego like nothing else. Since our mind interpret Tao I have learned to be extra careful.

So seriously are you a Taoist priest or something?

Darin