Anyone use Rattan Rings?

[Cat Nap]

I've never actually used them but plan to start so that I have something to practice with during lunch. Anyone use them - how do you find they help you progress?

[Mr Punch]

There have been a few short arguments about this in the past on this board... usually along the lines of people who have never used them complaining about how they train the wrong things...

Do a search, hopefully you'll find something useful... I think maybe Rene Ritchie or somebody added something useful the last time.

Edit: just did a search... unfortunately they seem to have dropped off into the archives... try searching the archives!

[tjwingchun]

There have been a few short arguments about this in the past on this board... usually along the lines of people who have never used them complaining about how they train the wrong things...

I am totally in the "They are cr&p department, the only way to stop them falling off your arms is to use the wrong energies in preparing for Chi Sau, you need to educate forward energies in the arms NOT outward ones that the rings propagate, I am sure that if you only have 1 student and you cannot be bothered to Chi Sau with them that they are a great method to keep them occupied while you go get a cup of tea.

I prefer to work on correct Tan Sau and Bong Sau positions and awareness of those as separate arms, especially in the early learning process rather than distract a student with a useless, though absorbing toy!

Watch them being demonstrated and observe the position of the arms and the direction of the energies of the elbows and wrists in relation to the centreline, then make your own mind up.

Take care and keep

[Mr Punch]

I am totally in the "They are cr&p department, the only way to stop them falling off your arms is to use the wrong energies in preparing for Chi Sau, you need to educate forward energies in the arms NOT outward ones that the rings propagate, I am sure that if you only have 1 student and you cannot be bothered to Chi Sau with them that they are a great method to keep them occupied while you go get a cup of tea.

I prefer to work on correct Tan Sau and Bong Sau positions and awareness of those as separate arms, especially in the early learning process rather than distract a student with a useless, though absorbing toy!

Watch them being demonstrated and observe the position of the arms and the direction of the energies of the elbows and wrists in relation to the centreline, then make your own mind up.

Take care and keep

I've never had them taught to me. Have you?

I do think that the way they are used is horizontally not vertically, to train snappy forward energy and snappy withdrawing energy, and so little to do with tan/bong and certainly no outward energy.

I don't remember anyone in Samuel Kwok's lineage ever saying anything about the use of the rings or even their existance so I'm afraid, unless you can tell me a bit more about who showed you and what they showed you and the pedigree of their knowledge in that particular (and not mainstream) training aid, I'm afraid I'm going to have to politely conclude that someone just made up whatever they were playing with, and that you fit into the 'people who have never used them' blh blah blah category! Seriously no offence, and as I started in Sam's lineage I'm genuinely interested.

[reneritchie]

Second try replying to this:

"A screwdriver is cr@p at pounding in nails"

Rattan Ring is a specific isolation equipment to develop specific Geng. It's not for rolling with or anything like what most people have shown publically.

If you want to train with it, find someone with generational experience in using it and learn it properly.

[AmanuJRY]

I've never had them taught to me. Have you?

I don't need to have someone 'teach' me how to use the 'ab-doer' for me to believe that it's a bunch of cr@p.

I'm with tj. I believe the rings train very improper energy (and I mean that in the kinetic, where-your-elbow's-going sense, not the mystical, internal sense), all the while the student is thinking they are developing correct positioning or whatever they are supposed to be 'designed' for, then you touch hands with them and it's nothing but holes (because they are chasing contact with your hands - like the ring - instead of your center).

It only takes someone with an understanding of correct intent (and to simplify, that is chase center not hands) to figure that rings are useless.

...unless, say, you're setting up a ring toss game.

The best training aid is a live partner.

[reneritchie]

The Wooden Dummy also teaches the bad habits of using strength-against-strength since all you do is hammer-fist strikes, pounding on the arms...

[bcbernam777]

There have been a few short arguments about this in the past on this board... usually along the lines of people who have never used them complaining about how they train the wrong things...

That's probably because they do

[yylee]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52&q=wing+chun

[tjwingchun]

Well thanks for the video and I rest my case, the non-related energies in the arms are linked so the individuality and sensitivity to feeling and using precise directional energies that we are seeking through Chi Sau is corrupted because they of having to keep in the ring in place, but if you have a clear visualisation in your own mind of what you are trying to gain from their use and you are happy doing it, then who am I to complain.

Take care and keep TJ

[k gledhill]

from what i see, it develops hand chasing , wrong slt~elbow thinking ....

[Gert]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52&q=wing+chun

Unbelievable what are they trying to sell us here!

Energy and pressure outward all the time. Elbows outwards. Although it looks somewhat like Ving Tsun it has nothing to do with the structure and its concepts.

Fantasy can also be an burden sometimes I think. Why always creating something new? Probably when the rest of your Ving Tsun is already perfect?

Not many people can train and appreciate a straightforward system. I have personally never been bored in a single training or felt the need to invent something. I’m still trying to master the ‘simple’ exercises we all know: chi sau, forms, weapons, lap sau, dummy, etc.

Cheers,

GJ.

[reneritchie]

Can some one link to a really bad JKD wooden dummy video so we could all just ditch as well?

Thanksferthefish...

[Turiyan]

I've never actually used them but plan to start so that I have something to practice with during lunch. Anyone use them - how do you find they help you progress?

I do not believe they were originally for kung fu. They are just as effective if not more with yoga. Esp. the virabhadrasana set which is the quitessential "kung fu" set of yoga. Lots of hidden meaning there and not "combat application" sillyness. They sell these as pilates rings but ironically much more expensive. There are steel ones which are totally insane because they are smooth chrome and weigh 9 pounds. I'd definitly coat those with plastic and or use them with sticks gripped in the hands. They are called body circles by the pilates folks and show the traditional training with them. You need two and twirl them in the arms. It develops the same muscles for punching and does a great job of developing both hardness while retaining your speed. At advanced levels the arms hardly move. But you can add more arm if you want but you'd need heavyer rings. They do toughen the forearms. Not as much as the steel ones would (the big loop not the hung gar rings). The only limit is your imagination. Just more excuses from "tradtionalists" who by nature cant come up with any creative ideas and are eaither bored to tears doing the same thing over and over or too dumb to stay perpetually mystifyed by some rather antiquated weapons and conditioning drills. There are also stretches you can do with them. But the real importance is energy. Its not about fighting or even calistenics. Its energy. Real shaolin training combines exercises with qi. As cliche as that sounds no one seems to get it. You learn more from a line drawing of a guy in a old book than a lifetime with a teacher. There's more there than meets the eye. The energy is hidden in the structure of the stance. Not in movement. What kind of bad habit are you going to learn from twirling them on the arms? Is that a fighting stance? Of course not. Its silly. Even water boxing has training for taiji balls and these rings. They are so amazing that its no wonder people keep them a secret. The best things are the simplest. They are for developing mainly 'dividing water skills' but there is also some crossover to other skills. Whip skills, iron forearm, iron shirt, ect. Probably one of kung fu's best kept secrets.

[YiWan]

Hi,
maybe you saw it already, if not - Guangzhou Sum Nung Wing Chun ,
Mai Gei Wong Wing Chun + Mai Gei Wong Wing Chun
IR