Anyone use Rattan Rings?

[Cat Nap]

I've never actually used them but plan to start so that I have something to practice with during lunch. Anyone use them - how do you find they help you progress?

[Mr Punch]

There have been a few short arguments about this in the past on this board... usually along the lines of people who have never used them complaining about how they train the wrong things...

Do a search, hopefully you'll find something useful... I think maybe Rene Ritchie or somebody added something useful the last time.

Edit: just did a search... unfortunately they seem to have dropped off into the archives... try searching the archives!

[tjwingchun]

There have been a few short arguments about this in the past on this board... usually along the lines of people who have never used them complaining about how they train the wrong things...

I am totally in the "They are cr&p department, the only way to stop them falling off your arms is to use the wrong energies in preparing for Chi Sau, you need to educate forward energies in the arms NOT outward ones that the rings propagate, I am sure that if you only have 1 student and you cannot be bothered to Chi Sau with them that they are a great method to keep them occupied while you go get a cup of tea.

I prefer to work on correct Tan Sau and Bong Sau positions and awareness of those as separate arms, especially in the early learning process rather than distract a student with a useless, though absorbing toy!

Watch them being demonstrated and observe the position of the arms and the direction of the energies of the elbows and wrists in relation to the centreline, then make your own mind up.

Take care and keep

[Mr Punch]

I am totally in the "They are cr&p department, the only way to stop them falling off your arms is to use the wrong energies in preparing for Chi Sau, you need to educate forward energies in the arms NOT outward ones that the rings propagate, I am sure that if you only have 1 student and you cannot be bothered to Chi Sau with them that they are a great method to keep them occupied while you go get a cup of tea.

I prefer to work on correct Tan Sau and Bong Sau positions and awareness of those as separate arms, especially in the early learning process rather than distract a student with a useless, though absorbing toy!

Watch them being demonstrated and observe the position of the arms and the direction of the energies of the elbows and wrists in relation to the centreline, then make your own mind up.

Take care and keep

I've never had them taught to me. Have you?

I do think that the way they are used is horizontally not vertically, to train snappy forward energy and snappy withdrawing energy, and so little to do with tan/bong and certainly no outward energy.

I don't remember anyone in Samuel Kwok's lineage ever saying anything about the use of the rings or even their existance so I'm afraid, unless you can tell me a bit more about who showed you and what they showed you and the pedigree of their knowledge in that particular (and not mainstream) training aid, I'm afraid I'm going to have to politely conclude that someone just made up whatever they were playing with, and that you fit into the 'people who have never used them' blh blah blah category! Seriously no offence, and as I started in Sam's lineage I'm genuinely interested.

[reneritchie]

Second try replying to this:

"A screwdriver is cr@p at pounding in nails"

Rattan Ring is a specific isolation equipment to develop specific Geng. It's not for rolling with or anything like what most people have shown publically.

If you want to train with it, find someone with generational experience in using it and learn it properly.

[AmanuJRY]

I've never had them taught to me. Have you?

I don't need to have someone 'teach' me how to use the 'ab-doer' for me to believe that it's a bunch of cr@p.

I'm with tj. I believe the rings train very improper energy (and I mean that in the kinetic, where-your-elbow's-going sense, not the mystical, internal sense), all the while the student is thinking they are developing correct positioning or whatever they are supposed to be 'designed' for, then you touch hands with them and it's nothing but holes (because they are chasing contact with your hands - like the ring - instead of your center).

It only takes someone with an understanding of correct intent (and to simplify, that is chase center not hands) to figure that rings are useless.

...unless, say, you're setting up a ring toss game.

The best training aid is a live partner.

[reneritchie]

The Wooden Dummy also teaches the bad habits of using strength-against-strength since all you do is hammer-fist strikes, pounding on the arms...

[Zhang Yong Chun]

"Rings...

[pause for effect]

don't fight back. If you concentrate on the finger pointin to da moon, yew will miss all da heavenwy gwowy."

Chi sao is fun, but is overrated by many WC people as a fighting skill. It is only one of many things you need in your arsenal. The overemphasis on chi sao skill has made many a "master" embarrassed in an unstructured situation.

[k gledhill]

rene how do you use the ring ?

[reneritchie]

Not for luk/poon sao or any repetitive rolling.

We use it to develop 'splitting power', or the ability to separate the bridges.

[k gledhill]

in what manner ? what would be the catalyst ~ application ?
thanks

[Vajramusti]

No. Prefer cat naps.

joy c.

[Liddel]

in what manner ? what would be the catalyst ~ application ?
thanks

Ive seen a few uses but never being taught, but i have an open mind and can think for myself, and with this in mind im no big fan of the 'training tool'.

Ive seen it used while doing Poon Sao - and i agree with the wrong energy call, IMO it encourages users to have to much energy at the wrist and not only that but to bend the wrist to stop it from falling away which in my lineage is a no no, we want a fists energy to fall away so we can follow up and catch the target .

Ive also seen it used for elbow position for things like Gaun Sao, the touch point of the ring is at the elbows this time and makes you concentrate more on waist power related to the action, but the improper energy is also at work here.

My conclusion - if i was stuck on a desert island it would be a great "Last Resort".

[AmanuJRY]

Not for luk/poon sao or any repetitive rolling.

We use it to develop 'splitting power', or the ability to separate the bridges.

I can see that application, but I still wouldn't invest...as for the dummy, I see your point, but that's a bit facetious.

[Mr Punch]

...as for the dummy, I see your point, but that's a bit facetious.

And this isn't?

I don't need to have someone 'teach' me how to use the 'ab-doer' for me to believe that it's a bunch of cr@p.

I go to so many MA boards where people who have never done karate knock karate, or worse yet the six mth to one year orange belt (Orange Belt Syndrome!) knock his ex karate school. I go to many boards where nutriders are knocking wing chun based on a couple of things they've seen, or a couple of lessons, or whatever when they've never been shown it.

I did karate for three years. I practised it hard, I used it in sparring against other styles. I got to ikkyu or nikyu or whatever. I still wouldn't say I'm qualified to talk about any but the rawest basics.

So why do people with no experience of a training tool feel the need to spout on about it?

Having said that... as I said in my second post and Rene said: it's not for training poon sao, so anybody complaining about it giving you the wrong kinetic energy for poon sao is barking up the wrong tree.

To reiterate:

We use it to develop 'splitting power', or the ability to separate the bridges.

...Which is kind of what I was thinking when I wrote the second paragraph of my second post... tho, as I said, I may be barking up the wrong tree too!