Houston Shaolin Kung Fu Academy & The Shaolin Monk Tour

[Songshan]

Just wanted to post Shi Xing Hao's school has updated the web site (finally) !!!! It is still under construction but check it out! The link is in my profile but heck if you don't want to read through my profile (I don't blame you) then you can see it here


Also there is a Shaolin Monk Tour heading to the Houston area. The dates are July 1, 2006 and July 2, 2006. It will be at the Stafford Center Theater of Performing Arts in Stafford Texas (a Houston suburb). You can call 713-772-1133 for more information.

[bungbukuen]

Typical modern Shaolin crap we see everywhere. If you look at their classes they offer the standard modern wushu curriculum; taichi, chang quan, san da, longfist & kickboxing (??), and traditional shaolin (aka: a few more forms for good measure).

This is really indicative of the entire Shaolin wushu scene in China. It is a real travesty to see this kind of crap being propagated as some kind of traditional Shaolin fighting system. Essentially it is fraudulent marketing, and everyone is just eating this sh!t by the truckloads.

[jerryyang]

http://www.chineseciviccenter.org/en...oustonshow.htm

[Songshan]

Typical modern Shaolin crap we see everywhere. If you look at their classes they offer the standard modern wushu curriculum; taichi, chang quan, san da, longfist & kickboxing (??), and traditional shaolin (aka: a few more forms for good measure).

This is really indicative of the entire Shaolin wushu scene in China. It is a real travesty to see this kind of crap being propagated as some kind of traditional Shaolin fighting system. Essentially it is fraudulent marketing, and everyone is just eating this sh!t by the truckloads.

Considering you have a blank profile it reveals that you have to hide behind a message board name and slander things you don't really know about. Why are you posting in the Shaolin forum anyway? If you don't like it don't click it.

[TenTigers]

hmmmm...you're both right.

[SanHeChuan]

I saw a touring monk show in Lubbock texas in 03? anyway I got to meet the monks and they were cool, They taught us a form (which I couldn't remember) and that was cool. But the show it's self was disa****ing pointing with made up sh!t like frog and scropion kung fu that looked stupid as hell.

[Songshan]

[bungbukuen]

Songshan,

Last time I checked it was perfectly within limits of the KFO forum to protect our individual privacy. If you have a problem with that take it up with the forum administrators.

Slander is when you say something about a person or entity that is not true. I said Houston Shaolin was teaching a modern wushu curriculum. The content of the website only confirms this. If you look at the curriculum it is clear that the majority of training focuses on chang quan (a single form by the way) and san da (i.e. Chinese kick boxing). Both references to modern sport wushu. And where in the website is there any reference to an actual specific Shaolin system. Answer - none.

Why are you posting on the Shaolin forum?
The question is why are you posting a clearly modern sport wushu curriculum in a Shaolin forum.

If you don't like it don't click it.
How am I suppose to know one way or the other if I like it or not if I do not click it?

Houston Shaolin is clearly teaching a modern wushu curriculum. It is also obvious that Shi Xing Hao is the by-product of a strictly modern wushu upbringing. There is nothing wrong with this and I certainly do believe that he is a absolutely phenomenal athlete and form dancer. But the teachings at this school seemingly have nothing to do with any traditional combative Shaolin system.

[BoulderDawg]

I've just started my Shaolin training 5 months ago in Colorado under the guidance of the teachings of Grandmaster The.

Now, being new to the art, I've gotten on the internet and noticed there are hundreds of different styles and schools. For me, having nothing else to compare it to, I love the school and the training. However I've also wondered how other schools compare.

As far as I know there is no regulating body. Anybody can open a school, give out black belts and train anything.

[B-Rad]

Houston Shaolin is clearly teaching a modern wushu curriculum. It is also obvious that Shi Xing Hao is the by-product of a strictly modern wushu upbringing.

Actually, Shi Xing Hao was considered a Shaolin expert before becoming a monk. Whether he teaches what he learned before, I couldn't say. I've never been to the school, and have only seen a bit of their longfist competition forms. Chang Quan is not one form, by the way, there are quite a few training forms (different than competition forms). Again, can't say whether he teaches the training forms in depth (how to use the punching, kicking, throwing, and locking techniques) or at all (lots of teachers here don't bother with anything but the performance forms). San Da also can mean different things. Asumung they're refering specifically to the sport, it at least allows them to test at least punching, kicking, and throwing in a hard contact live situation. It's a lot more than most "traditional" schools do, and they shouldn't be looked down on it for that. It's certainly better than only sticking to pre-aranged partner drills or going to the other extreme or injuring each other with maiming, crippling techniques

Last time I checked it was perfectly within limits of the KFO forum to protect our individual privacy. If you have a problem with that take it up with the forum administrators.

It's not a rights issue, it's an integrety issue. If you're going to insult another school (which you did) it looks pretty cowardly to give zero info on yourself or your training background. Also, your opinions won't carry as much wieght.

[Songshan]

Songshan,

Last time I checked it was perfectly within limits of the KFO forum to protect our individual privacy. If you have a problem with that take it up with the forum administrators.

Slander is when you say something about a person or entity that is not true. I said Houston Shaolin was teaching a modern wushu curriculum. The content of the website only confirms this. If you look at the curriculum it is clear that the majority of training focuses on chang quan (a single form by the way) and san da (i.e. Chinese kick boxing). Both references to modern sport wushu. And where in the website is there any reference to an actual specific Shaolin system. Answer - none.

Why are you posting on the Shaolin forum?
The question is why are you posting a clearly modern sport wushu curriculum in a Shaolin forum.

If you don't like it don't click it.
How am I suppose to know one way or the other if I like it or not if I do not click it?

Houston Shaolin is clearly teaching a modern wushu curriculum. It is also obvious that Shi Xing Hao is the by-product of a strictly modern wushu upbringing. There is nothing wrong with this and I certainly do believe that he is a absolutely phenomenal athlete and form dancer. But the teachings at this school seemingly have nothing to do with any traditional combative Shaolin system.

Well there are quite a few misconceptions here on your end. I am not saying that you have to post your personal information (ie address, phone number etc.) to post. What I am saying is that I only think it's fair that you show your background and present your credentials in what you know if your going to debunk a style. The problem these days is that people do it behind a computer and keyboard under an alias. It's amazing how many people claim to be "shaolin experts" with little to no background in this style. So nothing needs to be said to the KFO mods. If your going make a negative post then you should be able to back it up with facts and not the things you seem to have misread.

We all know what slander is. I was referring to the elite few that like to come into the the Shaolin forum and spam their flaming views about how much they dislike Shaolin, call it "crap" along with all the other negatives. Houston Shaolin Academy teaches traditional shaolin, Chang Quan (not a single form by the way), tai chi, San da and Lion dance (cultural). This is CLEARLY referenced and listed under the "school" section of the website. The school does teach Chang Quan which is considered modern wushu but is clearly stated that is not listed as "traditional shaolin". The forms are different and so are the excercises involved.

Wushu........

Unfortunately the west has come to recognize "wushu" as just being the acrobatic flowery style of martial arts. Wushu has a different meaning in the east. The very definition of of Wushu is "Wu" meaning martial and "Shu" meaning art or skill. Wushu is made up of talou (hand forms)and san da. The main wushu hand forms are Chang Quan (referred as long fist), Nan Quan (southern style), Tai Chi Quan and not to mention the weapon sets. The "wushu" we have come to know here in the states is "modern wushu". There have been timeless debates referring "modern" wushu as "traditional" wushu which leads to shaolin. Wushu is widely used loose term for martial arts in China (kind of how some people refer to martial arts as "karate" here in the USA). If you have seen "shaolin wushu" used in some cases it's referring to the traditional martial arts aspect or "traditional wushu". Needless to say, modern wushu is part of the curriculum at the Shaolin Temple today. However, there is traditional shaolin taught as well and should not be dismissed as all "wushu".

I post in the shaolin forum because that's the style I train in. I dont even train in Chang Quan. I just wanted to share the website update of our school and announce that a monk tour is heading our way for those who may be interested in it..... not to argue or offend anyone. I posted that original question because I will never understand why some people come to the shaolin forum and post such negative things about shaolin. We would be far better off if the vast majority of us respected each other, our beliefs and educate rather than disrespect and flame. The irony of it as martial artists we should be practicing that.

[bungbukuen]

It is a fact that I said modern wushu was being taught at Houston Shaolin kung fu school. I am glad you finally acknowledge this. Thank you.

I see the website Houston Shaolin and yourself like to throw around the term "traditional Shaolin" quite a bit. But when someone asks what actual system is taught, your only reply is "traditional Shaolin". "Traditional Shaolin is not a reference to any specific system of study that came out of Shaolin. I will ask again - what actual specific traditional Shaolin system is taught at your school? Simple question deserves a simple answer.

Cheers

[Songshan]

Yes I acknowledged that Chang Quan was taught at the school. I never denied it. It's not the only thing being taught and is not presented as "traditional shaolin". The basic kung fu class is the traditional class where anyone who starts training at the school must begin in this class before training in the other classes. Again the web site clearly states this under the "school" section.

I replied traditional shaolin kung fu because it is its own style and a reference to a specific system of study. This is where you should do more research. If you are referring to "system" meaning a particular style (like mantis, wing chun, etc)....you will never find it. "Systems" like mantis and wing chun have often been said that they were shaolin influenced. This is has also been a topic of debates because some schools present "systems" like praying mantis, wing chun and what not as "shaolin kung fu" and use the name. Some people agree and think its okay and some do not. This is why among other things why Shaolin Temple is trying to trademark the name.

To answer your question, the traditional Shaolin "system" consists of Shao Hong Chuan, Lian Huan Chuan, Tong bei Chuan, Mei Hua Chuan, Pao Chuan....the list can go on and on. These are just the names that I can remember off the top of my head. These are hand forms. There are also weapons and the study of qi gong that make up the entire shaolin "system". You can also tell the difference between wushu and traditional shaolin from the stances. For example in wushu, the gong bu stance (front stance) the legs are extended out straight with the toes of the front leg/foot pointed straight out. In the traditional gong bu, the legs are not strectched far apart and the front foot/toes is turned inward at a forty-five degree angle. There are other clues to look for but they hard to describe without any visuals.

In closing, I hope this cleared up some of the misunderstandings. I do not proclaim Shaolin as the only authentic style of martial arts that exits today. Shaolin is not for everyone and there are those that will never see it as real. I am just fortunate enough to live where a number of monks have settled down and opened schools here. What works for you...works for you. This is what works for me. Good Luck!

[bungbukuen]

Songshan,

I asked what traditional Shaolin system was taught at your school. From your in-depth understanding and diligent research you listed four hand forms.

"Just off the top of my head" I am guessing the rest of your forms list looks like this: Xiao hong quan, Da hong quan, Tong bi quan, Liu he quan, Chang quan, Chang hu xin yi men, Qi xing quan, Mei hua quan, Pao quan, Lo han quan.

Nowadays mainstream Shaolin has nothing to do with being a cohesive holistic system of fighting techniques, theory, and training methedology. Plain and simple it is a forms / performance based curriculum. What is propagated as traditional Shaolin is nothing more than a massive list of loosely disconnected and modified forms. They don't teach students how to fight, they add on san da or kick boxing for the so-called applied combat component, throw in standardized competition wushu forms like Chang Quan so as not to exclude themselves from competitions, and there you have the newly re-invented "traditioanl Shaolin kungfu".

The Houston Shaolin school fits this formula to a tee. Competition forms training, san da / kick boxing, shaolin forms training, and lets not forget taiji for "breathing".

If I am not mistaken some of the more famous traditional systems coming out of Shaolin included Hong Jia Shaolin, Kong Jia Shaolin, Yu Jia Shaolin, Da Sheng Men, Luo Han Men, Wei Tuo Men, Er Lang Men, Wu Xing Quan, not to mention many many more.

Cheers

[Songshan]

I was giving you a simple answer to your simple question. You do a pretty good job of misreading things. The four hand forms I mentioned were just the four that came to mind as I was typing....never said they represented all. They were just examples of traditonal shaolin forms and not wushu. The diligent research was for you to do, not me. I wasn't planning on posting a research paper here. I also am not saying that I am a Shaolin expert either. I am just a student. Perhaps there is a little more to the story on why you are just another "shaolin critic".

There are plenty of fighting applications in Shaolin forms. Considering you never visited the school, you have absolutely no idea how the training is. Your synopsis of Shaolin is just your opinion and your entitled to that. Like I posted previously, what works for you works for you. If you do not like the modern shaolin system then by all means you don't have to train in it.

Cheers