周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
How do most of you feel about Jumping ship?
What I mean is either from a teachers POV or a students POV.
I'm referring to when a student chooses to leave a sifu, and try to jump rank by trying to become a student of your teachers school.
how do most of you feel about this situation?
CLF Yut Gar
Frank:
People will be people and you can't control them. I wouldn's worry about and go on with my life. Joe and I were talking about this the other day and it is not worth it to get worked up over something like that. In truth the student can't jump rank becuase his first sifu is his sifu and he would be following his sigung.
Just my 2 cents.
Registered User
I can only relate from a students point of view. So here goes.
I think that when a person does something like this, it means they feel that they have stopped growing or learning in a particular situation. Maybe they feel that they need to go somewhere else to continue growth.
Trying to become a student of your teachers school is almost like a compliment. They like what they have learned, they consider it to be useful and want to continue learning maybe from a slightly different perspective.
If I was a teacher and a student of mine wanted to go learn from my instructor I would be fine with it. My instructor helped make me the person that I am. Why should my student be denied the same experience just because they learned from me first.
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周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
Actually,
this isn't in regards to anyone in particular.
I was just interested in knowing what others thought about the idea of trying to leave your sifu for his.
In my opinion it is a complete taboo. I know some may not make a big dea about it, but it's just something we look at as a total no no. you can go to any other teacher and we would write a letter of recommendation.
Personally, i feel you can do no worse. When I took my sifu I pledged to myself, and have proven to be a trusted disciple of my sifu, and he will always be my sifu.
My sifu in fut san was given to me. i never chose him. So, now that i have a sifu in Fut San, I will stay with him also. But I don't feel i'll ever take another. I'll just continue to develop the gung fu we have already.
See, to me your sifu is like your father. You protect him the same way you would your biological one. You listen and obey him. But when he is straying it is our job as senior disciples to keep our sifu on the right track. Anyways, since i'm not a commercial sifu, i have the opportunity to train my students the way i see fit. By doing so i am giving a large piece of me to my students. So of course if one of my students wanted to leave me for my sifu, i would be offended.
But i feel that it would hurt more if your sifu took him in as his own student after knowing one of his students was his sifu. As a sifu, i would never steal someone's students. I want to gain my students off of my own merritts. and if i only have three, then i will have a good 3 students.
See, CLFNOLE, your family situation is a little touchy for you guys to discuss, but if you see if from that perspective, then i hope you would understand. I didn't bring that up to open any wounds, but you guys have knowledge of this.
hsk
CLF Yut Gar
Frank:
We are all good on our end.
The thing you said about taking a sifu and dedicating yourself to your sifu. While I might share the same thinking as you others who are less informed of chinese culture might not look at it in the same way. They might think I just pay money to learn kung fu from so and so and if I want to go learn from someone else who cares.
Peace.
Banned
Actually this situation is becoming more common today.
So if it was a taboo wouldn't the individuals Sifu (the student's sigung) just completely reject them.
More and more Sigung's are accepting their Students Todai for many reasons.
Mostly its due to a conflict between teacher and student:
1. Money - badblood due to business related problems. IE: student is not getting a big enough salary. The Sifu/Student owes the other money. Most recently it has to do with branch schools of a particular Sifu. Too much money and not enough family.
2. Instruction: A sifu just isn't passing on the material in the proper way or just doesn't know the advanced material (doesn't take the effort to go back to their own sifu to continue learning).
Mostly I've come across individuals who they them selves got a ex: 10 forms in 5 years but has slowed down the learning so that their student only gets 5 forms in 5 years.
probably many other reasons as well. (The Sifu is dating his students exwife!!!
Future Sifu
The only way I would switch Sifu's is if I moved to a different state... but I can't lie it has crossed my mind for a brief moment in time. My Sifu was hurt by one of his former students. (not physically) He became very good and developed an ego to match. One day he challenged my Sifu. To make a long story short got his a$$ whooped and kick out of the school. Because of that Sifu allows me to progeress @ a much slower pace than some of his past students. But all in all I'm very loyal to him and understand why he teaches me the way he does.
"All the skill in the world won't hold up to a real confrontation if you are too afraid to use it."
hopgarsansau
chinese tradition its taboo, its not right.
unless you "leave" your sifu due to stuff like conflict or he isnt giving you stuff.
example: Ng Yim Ming Harry Ng becoming disciple to Wong Yan Lum when he used to be Wong Hon Rong (WYL's disciple)'s student becaue Wong wasnt giving out any of the higher level stuff
another example, your teacher voluntarily introducing you to his teacher so that you may directly learn from him,
like lo wai keung learning from Chan something Ng before Chan introducted him to Choi Yit Keung, or Kwong Man Fong learning from a student of CLC before he was introduced to CLC.
Registered User
Originally Posted by CLFNole
I don't think it has to do with chinese culture, cause if it did then our sijo's are really messed up people. Didn't the founder of CLF study under his uncle first, then from the lee gentlemen and then the choy fook monk? As well as the fut san head...Didn't he train first with CH and then with the GGMonk?
In YKM, our Sijo played CLF, Hung ga, Pak Mei, and then learned the YKM under the monk tit yun sum si. Pak Mei founder CLC trained in lee ga, lam ga (S. Dragon), wanders, and then pak mei. Look at the internal masters of the past...they all trained with one another.
Most founders of the popular styles in CMA have cross trained with different sifus, picking up their sifu's best traits and formulating them into a style of their own.
I dont think training with different sifus is something bad. One must continue evolving otherwise your hand becomes stagnent and will die off. I have a hakka bro. that told once before that after you have learned all your sifu has to teach you, he then becomes your uncle as you take on a new sifu. This is how it works in his sector/family.
Just food for thought!
Buby
Last edited by Buby; 06-03-2006 at 03:51 PM.
CLF Yut Gar
Buby:
I agree with you 100% but there is a proper way to go and learn from another sifu. You don't just up and leave and follow someone else if you have respect for your sifu. Training with others can definately be a benefit. I was referring more to people who jump from sifu to sifu not caring at all.
Peace.
Registered User
Ohhh...I see what you are saying now. I agree with you. There is way of doing things. I have a really cool sifu. All he asks is that we be open with him, as he would never get in our way of progression, but would do everything in his power to assist us in reaching our goals.
Take care,
Buby
I am my teachers student
A sifu should never accept a student that come from one of his own disciples. That's just bad ethics, unless his student gives his blessings.
AS a Sifu some times you have to repremand or suspend student's when they are not behaving properly.
How are you to discipline your student's if they can just run and join your Sifu's school.
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