No Sex

[DarinHamel]

I know many people who did the iron palm training and had sex. They can break as well as the ones who say they didn't have sex.
Sex is a natural instinct, i don't think it is good to suppress a natural thing.
In nature, the strong are the ones having the sex.

When I was young I could do the morning runs in the Army after a night of drinking, less than an hour sleep and smoke just before the run. At the time I would have sworn it didn't matter and at the time I was right. You don't see the effects until later, with maturity.

Now I dont smoke, dont drink and live on a diet of salads, fish, fruits, nuts and running is starting to get hard and because of the smoking getting air is hard for me when the temp. gets below 30 degrees, plus I am nearing 40.

Perhaps sex is in the same category for spirituality as smoking is for running. You dont notice the effects until it is too late.

[neilhytholt]

Hi Neil,

You may not choose to discuss politic or religion, but you seem to feel free to criticize the comments of others without giving rational argument for you opinion. This makes your opinion worthless for the purposes of discussion. It leads one to conclude you may not have valid reasons for you views. Any one can criticize the ideas and comments of others and make specious claims. This takes no intellect or knowledge of the topic discussed. If your criticism provides no evidence it has no value in the discussion and there is no reason to offer it other than to stroke your own ego.

While I support your right to stroke your own ego, if you interpose your meaningless and valueless comments into a REAL discussion, and receive criticism in return, than you have received the attention and recognition you are striving to gain albeit negative attention! Children strive to get attention, if they cannot get it by behaving with courtesy, then they will strive to get it by behaving poorly. You repeatedly behave poorly!

Be Well!!

It's not stroking my own ego. In case you didn't notice you tend to post a lot of words and is not that clamoring for attention as well?

At any rate, for once I think I agree with you, you are right, if I do not plan on contributing I shouldn't read this or post anything.

[DarinHamel]

Originally Posted by 18elders
I know many people who did the iron palm training and had sex. They can break as well as the ones who say they didn't have sex.
Sex is a natural instinct, i don't think it is good to suppress a natural thing.
In nature, the strong are the ones having the sex.

Lets concentrate on that last statement. If you are going to justify you actions by the natural world then in nature the strong ones also get replaced nearly every year by younger, stronger ones. The stronger the male the larger the harem too. Sex like that may follow the natural order of animals but there may be a higher calling particular to humans.

Some may choose to seek as many mates as possible and say its just being human, but in reality that resembles animal behavior and I think humans can rise above our animal side to become something more. Monogamy is one example but perhaps denying the entire impulse to mate altogether opens us to a whole new vista of super-natural experience rather than being caught in natual experience.

neilhytholt-Writing alot is also a sign of elegant thought. Some say the art of writing letters has become lost because of the internet. I think people like Scott who write longer messages show that it hasn't.

[neilhytholt]

neilhytholt-Writing alot is also a sign of elegant thought. Some say the art of writing letters has become lost because of the internet. I think people like Scott who write longer messages show that it hasn't.

Obviously everybody likes Scott. Scott wins the popularity contest! Good for Scott!

[Judge Pen]

Hi TaiChiBob.

Thank you for the encouragement. I am doing just that. The tentative title is “The Tao of Tao”. I am not into self-promotion so if and when it gets published I will PM you rather than post it on the BB.

PM me too Scott. I'm reading tao te ching right now and I can see its sayings peppering your posts on this subject. But I think the core idea is essential: to try to acheive immortality by defining a path you must follow is to lose your way.

[18elders]

Originally Posted by DarinHamel

Now I dont smoke, dont drink and live on a diet of salads, fish, fruits, nuts and running is starting to get hard and because of the smoking getting air is hard for me when the temp. gets below 30 degrees, plus I am nearing 40.

___________

It's natural to slow down as one ages and also the strong will not be the strongest as time goes on, not because they are having sex.
Sex is part of life, if you think refraining from it will make you have a super natural experience, best of luck.

[DarinHamel]

Originally Posted by DarinHamel

Now I dont smoke, dont drink and live on a diet of salads, fish, fruits, nuts and running is starting to get hard and because of the smoking getting air is hard for me when the temp. gets below 30 degrees, plus I am nearing 40.

___________

It's natural to slow down as one ages and also the strong will not be the strongest as time goes on, not because they are having sex.
Sex is part of life, if you think refraining from it will make you have a super natural experience, best of luck.

Thank you.

[Scott R. Brown]

Wow!! Go to sleep for 8 hours and you have a lot of catching up to do, LOL!!

Hi TaiChiBob,

Humble Bow Returned my friend!!!
_____

Hi Darin,

I will respond to your post when I have a bit more time. It could be tomorrow. Don’t feel bad about all the “”””” I have been good naturedly criticized for using too many !!!!!!! When someone notes my liberal use of exclamation points I respond: Here take some if you need them I have plenty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_____

Hi Judge Pen,

Ok, I better make a list, LOL!!

1) TaiChiBob
2) Darin
3) Judge Pen
_____

Hi Neil,

It’s not how long it takes to say something that has significance. It is what you say, how you say it, and why you say it that has meaning. My style is to use reasoned argument and metaphor to explain difficult topics. Both require time and space to use effectively. You may have noticed I also try to explain some things from various perspectives. This is because when discussing amorphous and/or complicated topics they are more easily understood when illustrated from different perspectives.

I am well aware not everyone appreciates my writing style. I am also aware that some will criticize my writing style simply because they do not like my views but cannot effectively argue against them or perhaps they do not wish to take the time to argue against them. I respond to these people or not as I feel inclined on a case by case basis. I consider it part of my MA training! I am not offended if someone doesn’t like my style or what I have to say. If everyone thought the way I do it would be a very boring world that would look very much like Nazi Germany. IMHO we all have something to offer to the lives of those around us, even those with a generally negative outlook.

We all have our own worldview. Our worldview helps define our life and give it meaning for us. I try to respect each person’s personal worldview even if I disagree with it and regardless of whether they respect mine or not!

Be Well!

[Nexus]

It is not new for man to look to another man for guidance on how he should conduct his life. For each of us, the choices we're presented with create cause for sacrifice of other choices if we go down a certain path.

Allow for me to ask a few thought provoking questions:

What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

What will bring about the true prosperity in your life?

Does abstaining or partaking in sex make a man or woman free, to have freedom, to be free in mind and body?

Should ones life revolve around sex? We are certainly culturally bound by it, biologically and instinctively pulled towards it and surrounded by it in the media and in conventional circumstance. Is it a matter of philosophy or religion to decide? Is there a difference between the two. Or, perhaps it is neither, but instead simply a matter of oneself? In the end, the individual makes the decision anyways, or do they?

This point of this spirals back to my words on freedom. Having true freedom is much like the wind choosing to blow one direction in one moment and another the next. It is not in my infinite wisdom to tell you right or wrong in all circumstances. It has been my experience that what is correct in one circumstance is often incorrect in another. We must decide using our common sense, logic and heart what is good for the goose and when necessary, good for the gander.

Flock you all. (couldn't resist the pun, no offense =)

[Scott R. Brown]

"The Tao of Tao"? If it is half as good as your posts I would buy it for myself and get a copy for my friends too. Your not just full of great Taoist insight but your writing style is very beautiful (and ego-non-threatening thank God).

Last year I came to the conclusion that I needed to "let go" of my need to seek a formula for immortality/ascension and to just "be" and it would happen naturally if my intention was to completely follow the Tao. Sounds like what your saying doesn't it?

Now I think I am just trying to figure out how to let go of "me". I have purged my possessions several times in my life so I could start over. I even went homeless once trying to follow the example of the Taoists masters. Perhaps I am at that point again?

What I need to purge this time is not my possessions, friendships or anything tangible. I need to purge something deeper and it seems it can't be contrived or forced. It needs to happen naturally and I don't trust "natually".

So whats your take on this? Wu Wei? I feel the intense need to "do" something but my personal insight tells me to stop "doing" and to just "be".

Hi Darin,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I appreciate your comment about my writing style; I never knew I had a writing style and I am happy it is pleasing for some people to read!
_____

Yes, it does sound very much like my view. This predicament is very nicely illustrated by the axioms, “The hurrier I go, the behinder I get!” and “The harder I try, the harder it gets!” I think the difficulty many of us have is determining how to intend a purpose without actually trying so hard we make it more difficult. This “intention without trying (forcing)”, wu-wei, is a state of mind, not an action we perform. It is the manner in which we use our mind that creates the condition of wu-wei or perhaps it is more accurate to say allows it to occur spontaneously!

The easiest way I have come up with so far to describe it is what I learned in basic lifeguarding when I was 15. When caught in a river or fast moving current, do not fight against the current, do not swim across the current! Flow with the current and gently angle yourself towards the bank. For us to apply this principle to the art of “Flowing with Tao” we must first get a “feel” for the process of Tao. This is similar to discerning which direction the current is flowing when in a river. In order to accommodate ourselves to the current we must first perceive which direction it is flowing. To do this in our lives we must learn to sense through feel and trial and error how to do it. It isn’t something that can be taught, it has to be learned on our own by searching and getting the feel for it. It is similar to learning to swim. Someone can show you how to do the movements, you can read the Tao Te Ching or use other forms of guidance, but you must apply the principles yourself to get the feel for the water on your own. So when learning to swim, you are provided with the information by the instructor, but the learning is done when you are in the water and actually attempting to practice the movements on your own.

Once we get the feel for it then practice is all it takes.

To assist us we may apply a few other principles. These are the principles of cultivation. This is not new information I am sure you have heard it before, but I will share a metaphor I use to explain it.

Our mind, our life, our character, our spiritual insight and growth, etc. are like plants growing in a garden. We cannot MAKE the plants grow just as we cannot force ourselves to grow. But we CAN create an environment that encourages growth to occur.

Each kind of plant has its own process for growth. We must accommodate our garden to the needs of the plant if we want the plant to grow healthy and strong. If I have a plant that requires more sun than other plants it is best for the plant to grow where there is more sunlight. If another plant requires more water than other plants then I must provide it with more water, etc. By setting up our garden according to the needs and characteristics of each plant they will to grow according to their own natures. We do not and cannot force the plants to grow. They will only grow according to their own nature. All we can do is create the best environment for the plants to grow and then allow them respond in the fullness of time according to their own natures. This is the wu-wei and tzu-jan of plants. The gardener creates a healthy environment for growth to take place and the plants respond according to their own nature.

So when it comes to our personal growth, we cannot force it to occur. There appears to be a specific process that occurs and there seems to be a relatively recognizable pattern to the growth. There is some difference between individuals because we are all different kinds of plants, so to speak. This is why there are so many different methods to achieve the same purpose. We each have our own personalities and our own inclinations, talents and skills. These influence the path, the tools, we will use to achieve our purpose. We may use different methods, but we will all follow a somewhat similar process and have similar weeds to remove. They may on the surface appear to be different kinds of weeds, but they are the same ones regardless of their outward appearance or the method we follow. The underlying process from method to method is pretty much the same, we all need water, sunshine and our garden needs tending, the soil aerated, fertilizer applied, weeds pulled, etc. But the growth will always occur according to our own natures in the fullness of time.

One thing that has a very large influence on our progress is emotional attachment. This can be an attachment to anything. It may be an attachment to the method we use or we may be emotionally attached to the goal, that is, trying so hard to make it happen that we actually impede our progress; or it may be another form of attachment. But mostly it is the attachment to our ego that creates the greatest impediment. Indeed all attachments are really just a form of ego attachment. Let us say the attachment to our ego is the root of all other attachments. They are really all the same attachment just dressed to look differently. There are a number of reasons we are attached to our ego. I don’t want to discuss them here. For now all we need understand is that it is attachment, or it is sometimes called “clinging”, that creates the largest hurdle to overcome or transcend or however one wishes to label it.

I prefer the word clinging at times because if we introspect into our minds we will notice that that is what it feels like inside our minds. It feels like we are holding on to something and we can't quite figure out how to let it go. We want to let it go, but some how we cling to it in a manner we cannot comprehend. If we could discover how we are clinging to it we think we could let it go, but since we can't discover how we cling, we become puzzled as to what to do. This is the goal then, to figure out how to release that which we are clinging too. It isn’t something that takes intellectual understanding to accomplish. There isn’t a specific series of actions put together in the correct order at the correct time that will make it happen. It is something that just occurs in the fullness of time. All we can do in the mean time is create a garden that will facilitate its occurrence and then allow the process to follow its own nature.
_____

To purge ourselves of possessions (I have done this myself in the past!) is merely a symbolic action we perform in an attempt to facilitate the release of our inner clinging. It is an outward representation of what we would like to occur inwardly and nothing more. The act itself does nothing; essentially it represents our inner desire for release. It is up to you to decide if you want to do it or not, but inherently all the action occurs within your mind, so while outward displays may make us feel better they do nothing inherently to modify our inner state of being.

So I agree with you, there is nothing outward that requires purging. All the action takes place internally within our minds. It is an act of release that we must “feel” how to do, but also it isn’t something we actually “DO”, it is something we “ALLOW” to happen, or perhaps we may say it occurs as a consequence of letting go!. We can't make it happen!!

While we are searching for the right “feel” of it, we can outwardly create a supportive environment (garden) to facilitate this result.

I emphasize that all I have just said is only one “metaphorical” manner of addressing this topic. Inherently there is nothing we need do and nothing actually occurs. The mirror was never dusty in the first place so there is nothing to clean. We already have what we seek, we just don’t realize it so we trick ourselves into playing a game in order to allow us to remember what we never really forgot. It sounds like gobble-de-goop, but there is truth in it! LOL!!

My idea of immortality btw is physical not-dying until your body transforms into pure energy and we ascend to the higher non-physical realms.

Technically speaking this is already our state of being, but in our condition of limited perception we don’t recognize it. So we search for and practice methods that encourage erroneous views that only reinforce the illusion. By convincing ourselves there is something to achieve we become preoccupied with the pursuit of something that already IS. What we need do is learn to recognize what already IS and not pursue an illusion!

As always, thank you for an interesting discussion!

[DarinHamel]

Technically speaking this is already our state of being, but in our condition of limited perception we don’t recognize it. So we search for and practice methods that encourage erroneous views that only reinforce the illusion. By convincing ourselves there is something to achieve we become preoccupied with the pursuit of something that already IS. What we need do is learn to recognize what already IS and not pursue an illusion!

Fact is, we are not. Can you discorperate at will? Can you walk through a wall? Can you fly? We cant do these things because we are physical. Our primary essence is energy, but we have a gross physical level that cannot in all honesty be ignored or "realized" away. In my opinion the physical body can be consciously evolved past itself, wherein there are real, substantial, measurable changes in the physical body while it happens.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

To walk through walls and discorporeate falls under the rubric of skills & abilities and while are related to ones state of mind have nothing to do with insight into being. One may acquire these abilities and yet have little or no spiritual maturity. I have had friends who traveled to India & state they have met individuals with powers and abilities who used them for manipulting others to gain personal power and status. As I previously mentioned I was personally associated with an American Indian Shaman who possessed little insight or maturity, but possessed powers and quite a number of abilities that I have personally witnessed. I would also direct you to the author Carlos Casteneda and his Don Juan series of books which he claims to be factual, although others doubt their veracity.

If you are seeking powers and abilities good for you, but I see it as pursuing illusion because they only have meaning on the physical plane of being and are not significnt abilities following death.

I would refer you to the boooks I have previously mentioned detailing research into life after death for plausible evidence to demonstrate my point.

[DarinHamel]

Hi Darin,

To walk through walls and discorporeate falls under the rubric of skills & abilities and while are related to ones state of mind have nothing to do with insight into being. One may acquire these abilities and yet have little or no spiritual maturity. I have had friends who traveled to India & state they have met individuals with powers and abilities who used them for manipulting others to gain personal power and status. As I previously mentioned I was personally associated with an American Indian Shaman who possessed little insight or maturity, but possessed powers and quite a number of abilities that I have personally witnessed. I would also direct you to the author Carlos Casteneda and his Don Juan series of books which he claims to be factual, although others doubt their veracity.

If you are seeking powers and abilities good for you, but I see it as pursuing illusion because they only have meaning on the physical plane of being and are not significnt abilities following death.

I would refer you to the boooks I have previously mentioned detailing research into life after death for plausible evidence to demonstrate my point.

I am not talking about skills or superpowers. I am talking about a state of being like Catholics talk about the glorified body where our bodies will be transformed into ones like Jesus had after the resurrection.

I equate enlightenment/immortality/ascension with having superpowers but I am not so dense to think those with superpowers are enlightened. A shaman could have superpowers as a skill but the enlightened have them as a natural outcome of realization. Sort of like the difference between Moses and the Egyptian magicians. Its like all taiji is qigong but not all qigong is taiji.

You said- Technically speaking this is already our state of being, but in our condition of limited perception we don’t recognize it. So we search for and practice methods that encourage erroneous views that only reinforce the illusion. By convincing ourselves there is something to achieve we become preoccupied with the pursuit of something that already IS. What we need do is learn to recognize what already IS and not pursue an illusion!

So once again, do you see that we are not already enlightened, immortal or ascended? Can you discorperate at will? Can you walk through a wall? Can you fly? We cant do these things because we are physical. Our primary essence is energy, but we have a gross physical level that cannot in all honesty be ignored or "realized" away. In my opinion the physical body can be consciously evolved past itself, wherein there are real, substantial, measurable changes in the physical body while it happens.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Darin,

No I cannot discorporeate at will etc. neither am in concerned about discorporeating at will. It is an ability and not directly related to realization. If I could do it I would not be too impressed with myself either. It is a child’s game when compared to realization. It is not an important ability to acquire. When one focuses on developing abilities or assigns the acquisition of abilities as a measure of advancement they are focusing on the leaves of the tree and not the root. The only true measure is do we realize or not. Anything else is merely a toy to play with or a distraction to lead us into erroneous views and attitudes that inhibit the end result.

[DarinHamel]

Hi Darin,

No I cannot discorporeate at will etc. neither am in concerned about discorporeating at will. It is an ability and not directly related to realization. If I could do it I would not be too impressed with myself either. It is a child’s game when compared to realization. It is not an important ability to acquire. When one focuses on developing abilities or assigns the acquisition of abilities as a measure of advancement they are focusing on the leaves of the tree and not the root. The only true measure is do we realize or not. Anything else is merely a toy to play with or a distraction to lead us into erroneous views and attitudes that inhibit the end result.

OK now were getting somewhere in our respective definitions of enlightenment. Do you believe a "realized" being can discorperate at will? Not whether they would or not but can they?

(This is like pulling teeth.)