Shaolin Temple UK

[sha0lin1]

[QUOTE=shaolinexecutioner;965151]
I find it interesting to hear him use the title "Shi" which is reserved for monks, not layman disciples. Given Shi Yan Zi's position on using Shi, I'm surprised he lets his little brother get away with that.

My Surname is Shi since I am a Shaolin lay disciple. I can back it up too. I have a certificate, issued by Shaolin Temple as most disciples do, to prove it.

[shaolinexecutioner]

To abandon your family name is very serious in China. While there are plenty of wannabe monks, Confucian ideals prohibit surname changes to be taken lightly. Shaolin can be ambigous on this point. This is very ambiguous with the Wuseng since they are a class of monk at Shaolin, but only take laymen disciple vows. A Wuseng can call himself a monk and I've not know any who have not. Abbot Shi Yong Xin has been trying to regulate this, but the task is beyond him. All of his direct disciples honor it. Granted the Abbot has a lot of honorary disciples, but Shi Yan Zi is not. Shi Yan Zi has been well within the Abbot's inner circle, unless that has changed very recently. I will concede this point for now.

I will also concede the vegetarian and sexual abstinence comment. But Miss Redbean not being forthcoming about that even after she said that Yan Lei was a layman is very telling.

My initial argument against Yan Lei stands. I have never known a real Sanshou champion who was not be forthcoming about his fight record. If they really won something, why wouldn't they say what? I would challenge such a claim with anyone, no just a Shaolin layman disciple. His comments that Sanshou fighters don't condition and that letting opponents strike his Steel Jacket are absurd.

De Ru is similar. He has claimed to be a Sanshou champion but has not produced any fight record. He has also claimed to be a monk. On the other hand, he avoids using the Shi surname and has produced Sanshou champions. He has even produced a UFC fighter.

I know Shaolin monks and disciples can be successful Sanshou fighters. Shi Yan Qiang placed 1st in Sanshou in the Hebei Porvince competition. Shi Yan Zhen placed 1st in Sanshou at 5th International Jingwu Competition. Shi Yong Hao placed 1st in Sanshou at the 1995 International Shaolin Wushu Festival. Shi Yong Yao placed 2nd at the 1978 Shandong Sanshou championships. All of these Shaolin monks have fight records that can be verified. They are forthcoming about it.

Care to respond to the ignoramus, Miss Redbean?

[LFJ]

To abandon your family name is very serious in China. While there are plenty of wannabe monks, Confucian ideals prohibit surname changes to be taken lightly. Shaolin can be ambigous on this point.

i dont think you understand the process of triple gem refuge and discipleship. no one actually changes their family name. they just receive a dharma-name. most laymen, whether shaolin or other, only use it in contexts associated with shaolin/buddhism. elsewhere it is irrelevant and in no way a legal name.

This is very ambiguous with the Wuseng since they are a class of monk at Shaolin, but only take laymen disciple vows. A Wuseng can call himself a monk and I've not know any who have not.

thats because the character seng僧 comes from the sanskrit word sangha, meaning the buddhist monastic community. they are by all means monastic although secular in precepts. that is why they are not called heshang和尚, the word for a fully ordained monk.

I will also concede the vegetarian and sexual abstinence comment. But Miss Redbean not being forthcoming about that even after she said that Yan Lei was a layman is very telling.

even if yanlei were a wuseng it wouldnt matter, since they take no vows of vegetarianism or celibacy. unless they choose to take the bodhisattva precepts (includes vegetarianism) or are on temple grounds and take the 10 precepts (includes celibacy).

anyhow, if i were yanlei being asked this kind of question, i would kindly ask you to mind your business. seriously, who asks another person about their sex life or lack thereof? especially since from your last post we can tell you knew warrior monks take only lay precepts, unless you are unfamiliar with what those are.

My initial argument against Yan Lei stands. I have never known a real Sanshou champion who was not be forthcoming about his fight record.

i will give you that, however. this is a legitimate an unassuming question. of course yanlei doesnt need to use records for advertisement, as previously stated. but i agree, if you're going to claim something at least provide the proof.

[shaolinexecutioner]

If Yan Lei doesn't need his records to advertise, why is he claiming to be a sanshou champion like his brother with his steel jacket? Why even mention it? He's using that claim to advertise. Don't even try to deny that.

Ask Yan Lei's master, Abbot Shi Yong Xin if anyone other than heshang or wuseng should be using the surname 'Shi'. On the record, he may be elusive because that's just the way he is. But off the record, especially within his close disciples, he'll be very clear on this point.

[LFJ]

If Yan Lei doesn't need his records to advertise, why is he claiming to be a sanshou champion like his brother with his steel jacket? Why even mention it? He's using that claim to advertise. Don't even try to deny that.

i dont know. i'm just saying he's obviously tough enough to not need records for advertisement. maybe he doesnt have a confident self-image? i doubt that, but i've never met him. but i agree with you on this point.

Ask Yan Lei's master, Abbot Shi Yong Xin if anyone other than heshang or wuseng should be using the surname 'Shi'. On the record, he may be elusive because that's just the way he is. But off the record, especially within his close disciples, he'll be very clear on this point.

well for one, yongxin is influenced by buddhist monastics external to shaolin, mainly from the pureland tradition. he doesnt have the experience with the old shaolin chan masters. so his opinion, being that of others external to shaolin, hardly matters. after all, he was never voted into his position.

but regardless, he has several other secular disciples that use the "shi" surname. and if that were a problem, then secular disciples also shouldnt have a generational dharma-name from the zibei used for monastics. they would have secular dharma-names with their own secular generation characters, just like many chinese families do for their children. other chinese buddhist schools do it like this as well. they have separate generational dharma-names for monastics and laymen.

but... as i said before, shaolin tradition doesnt do it like that. and there are also many other unrelated buddhist monasteries in northern china that do the same "shi" + generation-name + given name for laity too!

[shaolinexecutioner]

Abbot Shi Yong Xin's opinion doesn't matter in this?

[LFJ]

Abbot Shi Yong Xin's opinion doesn't matter in this?

seriously? how long have you been following shaolin? 2 years?

[richard sloan]

Abbot Shi Yong Xin's opinion doesn't matter in this?

NO.

Shaolin tradition matters in this, something Shi Yongxin Abbot has flipped on it's head a few times.

Anyway, the guy is legit. I know plenty of fighters who train with him, a couple of my gongfu brothers are working with him while they are out there, and not only do I trust their word, just look at the freaking guy.

Your 'argument' is basically saying a mack truck on the lot isn't a 'real' mack truck because it hasn't hauled a load off the yard yet. At the very best your argument only stands on ignorance- you don't know if his fight record is legit, nor do you know if he has a record which is not officially kept lol, which is actually the record which would interest me most if that was what I was interested in.

And so who are you anyway? I mean, my friend, how do we know your claims aren't just made up hoopla and how do we any of us even know you would know a fighter if you saw one. Just saying mind the coin or the sword that cuts both ways.

Have you produced a body of literature? A body of students and loyal disciples? Vouched for by a brotherhood of insane martial artists? What do you look like?

[mawali]

In the present world of IMA/CMA and market segmentation, wearing the robe is akin to standing out and showing you have soemthing out of the ordinary!

On one hand we say the clothes does not make the man but in IMA/CMA, it is the clothes that makes the entrance, or a sheep in wolf's clothing or vice versa.
Whether you judge a book by its cover or not is a personal decision but if you have 2 people, one wearing a monks robe and the other a suit and they both know Shaolin methods and training, it is the one with the monk's clothing that wins out. IT WORKS!
Now all the Shaolin monks in USA or Europe (for the most part) realize that, to be taken seriously, leave the suit and the jogging uniform at home. That is just the marketing reality!

amitofu

[richard sloan]

In the present world of IMA/CMA and market segmentation, wearing the robe is akin to standing out and showing you have soemthing out of the ordinary!

On one hand we say the clothes does not make the man but in IMA/CMA, it is the clothes that makes the entrance, or a sheep in wolf's clothing or vice versa.
Whether you judge a book by its cover or not is a personal decision but if you have 2 people, one wearing a monks robe and the other a suit and they both know Shaolin methods and training, it is the one with the monk's clothing that wins out. IT WORKS!
Now all the Shaolin monks in USA or Europe (for the most part) realize that, to be taken seriously, leave the suit and the jogging uniform at home. That is just the marketing reality!

amitofu

I'd say it's a little bit deeper than that. for more insight as to why the robes can be a big deal for some you have to go back through some of the history and persecution. At least for some, it's not exactly fair to say it's marketing.

He's a disciple. He has every right to wear what he does, and say what he is saying, as far as I know of him.

[LFJ]

check this out. these sticks are not breaking! he's just caraaazy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD75-zRluy0

i like how he says; "strong, boy! come on!" you cant hurt this guy.

i think if you have any doubts you can try to tell him yourself! bring sticks, bricks or whatever.

[richard sloan]

2 things.


1. If you don't break the stick on them, it tends to get them heated lmao.
2. Keep in mind a lot of the preliminary stuff is just to make things look good. You could walk up to him and smash a kick into him or crack a stickball bat on him sameway. It's not like he needs to do all those preliminary chi movements.

Okay, three things, is that a turntable set up there in the back....?

if so, major PROPS are in order lol.

[LFJ]

Okay, three things, is that a turntable set up there in the back....?

if so, major PROPS are in order lol.

i think it might be.

the only thing i dont like about that video is how they almost killed the audience members. what the hell were they thinking? he could have been in some serious trouble for that one.

[richard sloan]

yeah they got lucky on that one.

I mean, not to get all monty python, but...those stick fragments have some hustle on them, and you know it's all fun and games until someone gets a stick in their eye. We usually have gym mats set up.

[LFJ]

well still, you usually stand facing the audience so the stick doesnt go flying directly at them.

thats what confused me. wasnt it obvious that if it broke it would fly straight into the crowd?