Good article on knife crime.

[Mr Punch]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...793617,00.html

[Kapten Klutz]

In 1995 there were 243 murders with sharp instruments; 10 years later there were slightly fewer, at 236 last year.

Similar statistics are cited all across Europe, but this is deliberately misleading left wing propaganda. They fail to mention that doctors today are much better at saving lives than ten years ago. The numbers of aggravated assaults (including with bladed weapons) have grown over the last ten years, but slightly less people die from it. Hence if you just look at statistics on _killings_ it looks like there's been a reduction in crime, but the reality is the opposite.

[Mr Punch]

So, your spin is different to the writer's spin. It's still spin.

Personally, I think she has good points about the media. You seem to think that it's some kind of left-wing flake media agenda. Tell me, in a country where there is NO gun debate, and even extreme right-wingers rarely bring it up: with a centre-right government and increasingly centre/right politics in general (there is no serious left-wing in the UK at the moment) what do you think this supposed left-wing media propaganda is hoping to achieve?

And btw, do you have any stats for the increase aggravated assaults you state? I couldn't find any. On the contrary this admittedly left-wing article states:

What's more, the Met's category of knife offences apparently covers everything from cars being scratched with a knife to assault and murder with a knife. Even more strikingly, for all the headlines and handwringing about knife-assisted robberies and murders, it turns out that a 'knife offence' does not necessarily involve the use of a knife. According to the Met spokesperson, the Met's stats on knife crime include 'all offences where a knife has featured in some way'. 'Many of the offences・o not involve the actual use of a knife. [It] includes offences where a knife has been discovered by police during the investigation of another offence - for example, a knife discovered on a person arrested for shoplifting'. So stealing from a shop can become a 'knife crime' if the shoplifter had a knife somewhere on his person but didn't use it.

Which suggests that the police themselves don't know.

Not attacking you particularly: just wanna know where your info is coming from that gives you such insight on these articles.

[Kapten Klutz]

Not attacking you particularly: just wanna know where your info is coming from that gives you such insight on these articles.

Emergency room doctors in another European capitol, (PM me if you want more details of where) who have said that the level of brutality in assaults has been steadily increasing. This includes bladed weapons. They're able to save more victims' lives, but many more are ending up handicapped. I think it's a pattern across Europe.

I agree with you about the left in power in many countries in Europe today not being 'real leftists' anymore, but I was speaking more loosely. My point was that one of the main arguments for conservative oppositions trying to retake power in Europe today is that the (now centrist) Left wing govts aren't tough enough on crime, especially young violent offenders. They can't provide basic security to people in run down urban areas by taking predator scum off the streets.

The left puts out misleading statistics like this to try to make it seem as if they're doing enough when they're not. It's also dangerous because people need to know what they're likely to be up against if they run into a confrontation on the streets, or inside their own homes for that matter.

Anyway I was only taking issue with the statement I quoted, not with the article as a whole. I recognize that rhetorical trick and thought it needed to be supplemented with some facts.

[neilhytholt]

That's kindof funny, ~80,000 people in the prison population in a country of what, 50 million or something?

Contrast that to the U.S. prison population of over 2 million in a country with a population of ~6 times the size (300 million). Or about a 4x-5x incarceration rate.

The problem with the media is it's like concentrated evil. They constantly hype about a few extreme cases, and it leads to a public panic.

Consider the attacks on 9/11 in the U.S. ~4000 people died. Every year in the U.S., ~50,000 people die in car wrecks.

Yet people don't freak out over car wrecks.

The population worldwide is at an all time high. Life expectancies are at an all time high. There is less violence worldwide than ever before.

Just consider all the violence during the middle ages, sword fights, knife fights, breatings, torture, burnings, war, brutalizing, and consider that the world is a less violent place than it ever has been before.

Is violence still a problem? Yes. There are killings every day, there is war around the world still, and innocent people are suffering.

But the media is over-hyping the extent of the problem. Is that bad? Or is that good? Will that lead to an even greater decline in violence?

It appears that it will lead to an even greater decline in violence.