Tai Chi= 5 elements+8 energies?

[DarinHamel]

The first thing I learned in Tai Chi was the five ways of stepping and the eight hand/arm techniques and applications. Then I learned some of the long Tai Chi forms. I just met a guy who was a so-called Tai Chi expert who has no idea what they are and he has been studying Tai Chi for over twenty years.

Aren't these 13 forms like the basis of Tai Chi? I always likened them to the basic punches in western boxing. Ask any boxer the difference between a right cross and a left jab and he will explain them and show you on your jaw if you like. Ask your average Tai Chi person the difference between ward off and push and if you get an answer it will be vague and if you get a demonstration it will be very contrived.

I understand that the different schools have different applications but is not knowing the original Tai Chi "13" a Michigan problem or is it a more general wide ranging problem?

[scholar]

8 power generations (p'eng, lu, chi, etc.) plus the 5 directions (forward, backward, left, right & centre) give the T'ai Chi 13, as you say. "Eight Gates and Five Steps".

Let me guess, the guy was from the "Taoist T'ai Chi Society"?

Some of the best T'ai Chi teachers I know live in the Detroit area, interestingly enough.

[DarinHamel]

8 power generations (p'eng, lu, chi, etc.) plus the 5 directions (forward, backward, left, right & centre) give the T'ai Chi 13, as you say. "Eight Gates and Five Steps".

Let me guess, the guy was from the "Taoist T'ai Chi Society"?

Some of the best T'ai Chi teachers I know live in the Detroit area, interestingly enough.

No, he was from the School of Chinese Martial Arts on Woodward. So who are the good ones here?

[scholar]

Hi. I'll have to see if they want me posting info about them here. I'm sure it is OK, but out of courtesy I'll send my friend an email to be sure. You can send me a private message, though.

Do you take classes in the area?

[DarinHamel]

Hi. I'll have to see if they want me posting info about them here. I'm sure it is OK, but out of courtesy I'll send my friend an email to be sure. You can send me a private message, though.

Do you take classes in the area?

I used to teach at St John Hospital actually. When I first moved back to Michigan after 15 years on the East Coast I went to Frankenmuth. The first thing I did was try to find a new Taijiquan teacher. The one guy I found learned half the 108 Yang stopped studying and five years later made up his own Taijiquan. This guy had nearly 300 regular students.

Thats when I decided to teach because at the time I was getting really good at push hands and more than anything I wanted people to practice with. So I taught for a bit and then moved to Detroit for work reasons.

I quit teaching. Nobody wants to practice. I have seen the really good ones move away or quit because of family responsibilities and the ones who stay just want to socialize. I guess they take Taijiquan because the pottery class got cancelled.
I went looking around again but found a lot of people who collected a lot of forms, and people who are really good at a hard style and learned Taijiquan from a video and teach Taijiquan. I tried the Wu school in Clawson but they shut down.

My problem is also I dont want to learn another form. I learned the Yang 108, Simplified 24, two Chen forms and a Wu form among others. I only practice the Simplified one now and even that has given way just the 5 & 8 such as just doing advance stepping while doing ward off. I guess I am trying to really master the basics again at this point. Lots of isolation exercises.

If I could find private (that sounds arrogant) lessons, that would be cool. I am also looking for a judo school to take private lessons because my old taijiquan teacher incorperated throws into the applications and I haven't thrown anyone in ten years. I want to start at the beginning of my training again I guess.

I tried to PM you but couldn't figure out how. My email is darin.h@sbcglobal.net

[dleungnyc]

I believe, most people mistakened that the form is the 'basis/foundation' of Tai Chi, or for that matter just about any other type of martial arts.

I had a chance to read some documents/writings from some of the masters between 1900-1990's. Most of them felt that the current generations of practioners based their skill levels on how many forms they know and how well they perform them. Instead of how well they fight.

The late Feng zhichang from the Chen Family Tai Chi is a perfect example. If you look at his form demonstration, he's lousy to look at, but if you pay attention to his 'execution' and power generation, he's awesome. And he's the one that handled almost all the challenge matches for the Chen tai chi from the 50's-80's I believe.

[scholar]

Well, yes. The forms are important, but without the basics they are just lousy, misaligned, unbalanced forms. Basics first, forms second, pushing hands third. At least that is the order I learned, others may vary.

Darin, I can't figure out how to turn on the PM function either... Anyway, the Clawson school moved down 14 Mile Rd to Birmingham, but they are still teaching. They are the ones I was telling you about. Go to www.wustyledetroit.com to find their current class locations.

[DarinHamel]

Well, yes. The forms are important, but without the basics they are just lousy, misaligned, unbalanced forms. Basics first, forms second, pushing hands third. At least that is the order I learned, others may vary.

Darin, I can't figure out how to turn on the PM function either... Anyway, the Clawson school moved down 14 Mile Rd to Birmingham, but they are still teaching. They are the ones I was telling you about. Go to www.wustyledetroit.com to find their current class locations.

Whats your background? Are you a Detroiter?

[scholar]

I've been doing Wu style since 1988, Yang style for a few years before that. I'm in Detroit now myself, and I teach Wu style at several locations, for the general public, seniors and rehab. I've been to China a few times, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Wu family members have visited us in Detroit to teach seminars several times as well.

If you trained at Clawson, you know what it looks like pretty much. Square form, pushing hands, spear, sabre, sword. At advanced levels there are round forms, fast forms, neigong and sparring, along with t'ai chi shuai chiao: throws, footsweeps and tumbling.

Cheers!

[DarinHamel]

I've been doing Wu style since 1988, Yang style for a few years before that. I'm in Detroit now myself, and I teach Wu style at several locations, for the general public, seniors and rehab. I've been to China a few times, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Wu family members have visited us in Detroit to teach seminars several times as well.

If you trained at Clawson, you know what it looks like pretty much. Square form, pushing hands, spear, sabre, sword. At advanced levels there are round forms, fast forms, neigong and sparring, along with t'ai chi shuai chiao: throws, footsweeps and tumbling.

Cheers!

I didn't train at Clawson. I saw the sign, got really excited about a lineage school being so close to me and when I went in they were closed and I didn't see a moved-to sign.

I did talk to some non-new age types who did give Stephen Britt (spelling) great remarks. $60/month for 2 classes a week? Ouch! Better be good... I will check it out but would hate to get locked into a contract and hate it. I will make contact and see if I can watch a class. I know I should have beginner mind but beginner mind and gullible mind are very close together.

Do you know the School of Chinese Martial Arts and Sifu Brown? They do Tai Chi.

Lastly I want to get rid of a heavy 100lbs bag with the free-stand, a bench and some weights and bars. Do you know anybody? Its all free to the person who can come get them. I moved into a smaller place and need the room. I have a choice between a weight gym and a dojo and I picked the dojo. Trading for some mats would be cool.

[DarinHamel]

Scholar,
They say they do the 108 as a first form? Is that a Wu 108 or the Yang 108? I have never heard of a Wu 108.
Darin

[scholar]

Greetings.

Sifu Steve doesn't do contracts, it is month by month and you get to try the first class free, if you'd like. I believe it is $55 for a month (I could be wrong on that one, that is the last I remember, but that was before gas was $3 a gallon...), the classes are 2 hrs. long, though. That is a better deal actually than my classes, one of the community centres I teach at (I don't set the rates, they just hire me to teach there) charges $18 a class! To be fair, it is in a top notch facility for T'ai Chi purposes. The average I charge for my classes is $8-$10 a class. Sifu Steve's rates average to $7.50 a class at $60 for 8 times a month, but he gets to set his rates.

The form list we work from is the same as at this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_for...i_Chi_Ch%27uan

Shanghai numbers the same form with 88 postures, Hong Kong uses 108. Same form, different numbers, go figure.

[scholar]

Hello again, I missed your other questions...

I don't know a thing about what the 12 & Woodward bunch do except that they exist. We don't get into the "T'ai Chi community" thing much. We do what we do and don't get involved with other schools at all.

It is pleasant of course, but also funny that the New Age types complimented Sifu Steve (he is actually my Sihing), since he isn't New Age himself at all. He started learning from Wu Daqi in Toronto back in 1974, straight martial curriculum, no "move like the wind" mumbo-jumbo. There is a lot of Taoism and Buddhism encoded into the style, of course, but we have Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, you name it, students. It is a physical syllabus, even if the values behind it wouldn't be out of place in a monastery.

I don't know anyone who would want weights, sorry. Our only weight training is pushing, lifting and throwing bodies as well as our various weapon forms and fencing.

[DarinHamel]

Hello again, I missed your other questions...

I don't know a thing about what the 12 & Woodward bunch do except that they exist. We don't get into the "T'ai Chi community" thing much. We do what we do and don't get involved with other schools at all.

It is pleasant of course, but also funny that the New Age types complimented Sifu Steve (he is actually my Sihing), since he isn't New Age himself at all. He started learning from Wu Daqi in Toronto back in 1974, straight martial curriculum, no "move like the wind" mumbo-jumbo. There is a lot of Taoism and Buddhism encoded into the style, of course, but we have Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, you name it, students. It is a physical syllabus, even if the values behind it wouldn't be out of place in a monastery.

I don't know anyone who would want weights, sorry. Our only weight training is pushing, lifting and throwing bodies as well as our various weapon forms and fencing.

I said non-new age. I meant the people who complimented Sifu Steve seemed normal. I meant it as a compliment.

[scholar]

I said non-new age. I meant the people who complimented Sifu Steve seemed normal. I meant it as a compliment.

Oh, sorry, missed that.