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I learned that form or close to it from Dr. Yang years ago. He considers it primarly a mantis form which draws some strategy and technique from longfist.Originally Posted by Royal Dragon
I also learned the Tai Tzu Chuan set from his andover branches site. Both are great forms with great techniques in them.
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It's interesting that, that form is considered a Mantis set. I showed it to a Tai Tzu Hong Chuan freind of mine in Australia, and he recognised it as a HONG Chuan set. It's not from his branch of Tai Tzu Hong Chuan, but if you compare it to the pefromance of the other set I linked to, you see certain markers...or techniques that are done in both sets, in the same order. There are many moves inbetween that are different, but the ones in common are in the same order within the two sets.
My guess is that it is a Tai Tzu Hong Chuan set that was incorperated into Mantis early on.
I have talked to others over the years who also consider all 3 Tiger Swollow sets to be Tai Tzu Hong Chuan sets incorperated into Mantis.
I also have footage of John Wang doing the Tai Tzu set above, but I don't know how to upoad it here, and i cannot find the original links to his performance online. His is an excellent exibition of the set.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
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Registered User
A gua is a melon. Like xi gua (watermelon). Or tuo xi gua (watermelon head)
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Can anyone tell me what other media contains Tai Tzu Quan? I heard a rumor about Green Dragon studios having something. I haven't felt like going to the hassle of trying to contact them. Wait three months for the brochure you've requested, then six months to recieve your order. By the way, I have no affiliation with Chin Wu, though it's an honorable organization with a long and illustrious history. I'm also no expert in Tai Tzu Quan. I just think it's a rather handsome style.
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I have the Green Dragon tapes. They look like some sort of Tai Tzu Hong Chuan, but the performance is so bad, it's hard to really make it out properly.
Also, it says right on the tape that the set is not pure, but a Tai tzu/ Five Animals hybred.
I think it would take a LOT of work to restore it, and one would have to be well versed in Tai tzu to do it. At that point there would not be a need in the first place.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
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It looks like it has alot in common with the mizong quan form that I know...It's interesting that, that form is considered a Mantis set. I showed it to a Tai Tzu Hong Chuan freind of mine in Australia, and he recognised it as a HONG Chuan set. It's not from his branch of Tai Tzu Hong Chuan, but if you compare it to the pefromance of the other set I linked to, you see certain markers...or techniques that are done in both sets, in the same order. There are many moves inbetween that are different, but the ones in common are in the same order within the two sets.
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Thank you for your responses to my question. I've found the 32 move Tai Tzu form I've seen to be graceful and flowing with many good techniques. It resembles a combination of Hong "Red" fist boxing and Mi Zong without the "pauses" or "poses". All this within a relatively short form. I'm interested in learning more about this system. I'm particularly interested in the variations practiced in Hebei Prov. and Taiwan.
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It is said the Emperor developed Tai Tzu Chang Chuan, and the Hong Chuan and passed both to Shaolin. I am sure Shaolin added thier own evolutions to them, but the similarities stem from both styles originateing from the same source.
The reall Old Sung dynasty Shaolin Hong Chaun is Tai Tzu derived, the new "Flood" fist Hong Chuan from the Yuan dyansty is not.
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
Haoli
Not really surprising with Tai Tzu being the first style listed in the 18 styles poem about mantis.
Here is one rendition of that poem...don't remember who to to credit this to...certainly not me.
The "Long Punching" Form of the first Emperor of Sung Dynasty
The "through back" Form of Han Tung
The "Enclosing" Movements of Cheng En
The "Short punching" Form of Wen Yuen
The "Short range attacks" of Ma Chi
The "Monkey-Form" kung fu of Hsuan Huan
The "leaning On" Kung fu of Huang Chien
the "palm thrust at face"techniques of Mien Shih
The " clasped hands through punch" of Chin Hsiang
The "Grappling and dragging with heavy chopping fist" attacking methods of Huai Teh
The "hook, grapple and pluck " techniques of Liu Hsing
The "Rolling in and punch at ear" Kung Fu of Tan Fang
The "touching and throwing" Techniques of Yan Ching
The strong "Alternate kicks" of Lin Chung
The "seven styles chain-punches" Form of Meng su
The "chopping punch at breast" of Tsui Lien
The "rolling drag and punch" Techniques of Yang Kun
The "praying mantis Styles" of Wang Lang as a big combination
"George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."
"If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"
"Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"
It's simpler than you think.
I could be completely wrong"
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Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
Registered User
those are real tuo xi gua
Loud City
That's one of my core sets.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
NSLF
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Royal Dragon
> Some examples of Tai Tzu
> Little Tiger Swollow
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevefarrell...antis_form.mov
Thiss one is definitely a PM form. The performer is master Gao Dao-Sheng who leraned the form from GM Wang Song-Ting. Our LF version of Little Tiger Swallow is also came from 7 star PM GM Wang Song-Ting. My teacher was taught the form directly from GM Wong through my LF GM Han Qing-Tang's request. Later, my teacher taught the form to his LF brothers. That was also how LF people in Taiwan leaned this form. Some people did not know the history, and thought this form is a LF form because it came from some LF people. But, it is a PM form.
We also have Big Tiger Swallow. From the form, it shows much more PM trade mark moves. Historically, Little, middle, and Big Tiger Swallow forms are one of the core forms from Praying Mantis.
Cheers,
Loud City
These are also core forms of Korean Long Fist.
Lin Pin Zhang and Jiang Kyung Fang influenced Long Fist practice (particularly from Lee De Jiang aka Lee Duk Kang) in and around Seoul.
So, these forms are played with a much stronger Long Fist flavor.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
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Does anyone know how the Tiger swollow sets got into Mantis?
Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.
For the Women:
Loud City
Mantis people say Wang Lang invented them, based on Shaolin Longfist.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
NSLF
Geographically, Long Fist and Praying Mantis are all popular in Sang Dong province, China. That is also where my GM Han and GM Wong came from. GM Wong taught at Qing-Dao Guo Shu Guan in early 1900. GM Han also deeply related to the place. Both of them knew each other then way before they came to Taiwan. I would not be supprised that LF people from that area also learned PM forms and PM people learned LF form, because Qing Dao Guo Shu Guan taught both systems. Several PM masters in Taiwan were also very good at Shuai Chaio because they learned it form the school.
Most of the CMA in Korea also came from Sang Dong province. So, LF mixed with PM or PM mixed with LF should not be a suprise. But, PM form has its unique way of doing things, so is LF. The ways to practice them are very different. Some people just did not learn the difference, this include many of my LF brothers under my teacher.
There is another form called Si Lu Beng Da also exist in LF and PM. They are the same form, although there are some different moves in LF version and PM version in this form. But, the way to practice them are different according to their own flavor in each system.
Cheers,
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