Define Successful Sifu

[WinterPalm]

Sorry, triple post.

[WinterPalm]

Kung Fu means a lot of things to a lot of people.

To me, and I think this is true as it is a Martial art, you must be proficent in this area. Kung Fu is most definately about being able to defend yourself and properly apply martial techniques. I believe much in the area of character building as I try to stress it often...but if you aren't training to realistically fight or defend yourself than you are not practicing Kung Fu...or martial art more specfically. My first reason for studying was combat and I still focus a great deal in this area but not to the exclusion of meditation, and other components. We need balance but without a doubt, Kung Fu is a martial art and all the practice I participate in reflects this.


Kung Fu has at its core the ideal of being able to survive any violent encounter, to bring virtue to those around you, and to work pretty darn hard!

DJ,
You said all this but in a different way.

Yeah, I'm at the core in my own journey...I put in the hours and defend myself or others, and I try and be nice to others... but the support and guidance of my Sifu and Simo, and the respect and 'travelling partners' of my training brothers (and the sister), make it so much more than just me.

I see my Sifu as being a pretty selfless person, not to the extent of silly self-depreciation, but in generosity, courage, determination, and kindness...One may find themselves in or near the center, but our social value is higher than our own perceived worth.

Success? My Sifu has had to deal with people coming into the school and slandering his name and reputation with lies and deceit and he has dealt with it in a suitable way. He is a martial artist, and, like he says, if you throw stones they are going to get thrown back.

Here is my revised core through deeper contemplation:
1.) Combat preperation via self-defense and fighting ability.
2.) Character development and personal growth.
3.) Humility and sacrifice that come from years of hard work and often seeing that hard work lost on people who never learn...but continuing because you know it is making somebody else's life better.

This is the list that organizes my view of Kung Fu, and where I place priority...heck, if I'm dead from a street fight then I certainly can't go on to help somebody else or further my personal development. Right now I am learning how to teach and share the art...I consider myself more of a drill sargent than a teacher as this area of my Kung Fu is still very crude and basic...but I can still demand another thousand kicks without much of a struggle!...well, maybe a groan or two!

I've been training for only five years with my Sifu and I'm sure his list would look different and I've a lot to learn, but my current satisfaction doesn't come so much with what I'm getting but with what I'm sharing and what my Kung Fu siblings are learning and seeing them grow as I, too, continue to progress.

[Yum Cha]

Hi David,
You are making a lot of good points about the teacher-student relationship, but I ask myself, how is it different to any physical pursuit? Is learning archery any different? Gymnastics? Football? Rugby?

Measuring yourself against a standard and finding your limits? Learning to focus and control your physical entity. It takes me back to the idea that Kung Fu is simply hard training. There is Kung Fu in cooking, lovemaking and most worthwhile pursuits, to my mind.

Morality and ethics, I think are worthwhile, but I don't know that I agree they are part of Kung Fu. I know, spoken like a true Pak Mei disciple....hahaha.

Likewise, friendship, and support. A sifu lifts a student, but when a student leans on a sifu, he should push him off. Sifu is not a crutch. If you cannot stand, you should learn how to stand before you expect to walk or run. Discipline is the virtue taught by Sifu, and self reliance, self belief.

Sifu also has to know when to send a student away.

Metaphorically, Sifu gives you a fishing pole, not fish.
Sifu gives you a map, not a destination.

Also, to my mind, there is a cultural translation that doesn't always come through correctly. Asian cultures rever the seniors, honour the ancestors, respect the elders as a matter of course, across many aspects of society. The Teacher, regardless of the subject, is the recipient of this cultural respect.

Western society does not share all the same characteristics, to the same extent, I think its fair to say.

So, the respect and reverence of a martial arts teacher, ritualised thought it may be, is really simply an eastern cultural vestige carried into the western experience, and not necessarilly taken in the right frame. I think it is a virtuous element, and a good lesson, but not necessarily solely a Kung Fu thing.

[dainos]

i do. lots of good stuff here lots of humblness too

[hskwarrior]

dainos,

your're right. I like this thread because at times, ever so slightly edgey, but all in all, everyone is contributing. and that's great.

I appreciate everyone who came out to post.


thanks

[travelsbyknight]

I think a successful Sifu depends on the individual student. If a student is unhappy and leaves then it could be said that the sifu wasn't good for that student. The same is also true for the opposite situation.

Quality traits:

1. A sifu isn't a coach. He isn't meant to sit there and motivate you to work. That's your job.

2. If a student leaves a school a better person(someone with better kung fu ability) than IMO the sifu has done his job.

3. If a student deems the school curriculum to be missing something then it is up to him to add that into HIS OWN training. Once again, the sifu isn't a personal trainer who changes to your needs.

4. A good sifu holds things back from students until he deems that that student is ready to learn more. Many students are interested in training their own way or learning brand new techniques/drills. What's the point if you haven't shown profficiency in what the sifu has already shown you? You're wasting his time at this point. The main reason a sifu tries to curtail a student's curiosity is because this constant curiosity about other arts will keep him from being sculpted. The student's tea cup isn't empty and he will go on to learn the basics of many arts and never the mastery of any.

I don't have all of the qualities that I just listed. Sometimes I'm a good student and lately I've been a sh!tty one. I could be practicing but instead I'm online ordering crap I can't afford. I've hit a pleatua(not sure if I spelled that right). It would be very easy for me to blame my lack of moving forward on my sifu. Here are the constants of my situation. My sifu has been teaching me the same way for years. The curriculum has changed very little. Why was I into it years ago and not so much now? The answer is within me. I changed. Could somethings in the school be better? Sure. But I put full blame on myself. I've become a better person since the start of my kung fu career so that means my sifu has done his job. I need to start doing mine better.

[dainos]

"crawl before you walk" my sifu
walk before you jog
jog before you sprint
many people want to run after they crawl some people want to sprint after they walked. and some want to sprint after they crawl.

this is a problem for many people im just trying to not be one of those people

[hskwarrior]

that's wild dainos,

I tell my students the exact same thing about the crawl before you walk concept.


tha's cool.

[dainos]

its a very good and common saying.
hehe

[travelsbyknight]

A successful sifu is someone who can think of techniques after only seeing one. He shows them on the fly and they're radically different from the others...but the same.

[dainos]

A successful sifu is someone who can think of techniques after only seeing one. He shows them on the fly and they're radically different from the others...but the same.

but first they have to work. they can look good but can they work.
thats just inventiveness anyways its not totally required but it is nice.
my si hing is very inventive

[David Jamieson]

an attentive student can extrapolate more applications out of form than what they are shown.

an inattentive student will have difficulty with the one they are shown.

a successful sifu can see the one who needs the cane across the back, and will lovingly provide it. :P

[travelsbyknight]

There's no way to tell if a sifu's techniques work unless you attack him. You have to trust that his techniques are based off of his personal combat experience. Will they work for you? Nope. YOu have to modify them for your body type/attack situation.

In my opinion, a person who can make techniques up on the fly from principles of the form, is extremely unpredictable in a fight situation. You never know what he's going to do next.


Yes, a good student should be able to extrapolate techniques from forms...but I don't think most people have that ability. It's hard to decipher forms sometimes. I study hung gar. Ever try deciphering those forms? Yeesh! Sometimes I'd rather run ten miles

[Yum Cha]

A successful sifu is someone who can think of techniques after only seeing one. He shows them on the fly and they're radically different from the others...but the same.

I think a good Sifu is one that can train that skill into his students.... Having the skill simply makes you a good student of your art.

[WinterPalm]

There's a guy who posted in the Kung Fu Main Forum and he is saying that he pulls in 200,000$ American from his job teaching Kung Fu...

Maybe this is the definitive answer we are all looking for?