Problems with Dissolving the Brain?

[Doug]

Hello,

In Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body, he states that "[L]ater it is possible to extend the dissolving process through the entire brain. Just be sure not to do anything specific with the chi of gates you encounter inside the brain, such as making connections or geometric patterns" (76-77). I have two questions: 1) what is he specifically referring to (what he offers he is somewhat confusing), and why does he say this? Does anyone have any experience with this who could help me understand his position?

Thanks,

Doug M

[neilhytholt]

Hello,

In Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body, he states that "[L]ater it is possible to extend the dissolving process through the entire brain. Just be sure not to do anything specific with the chi of gates you encounter inside the brain, such as making connections or geometric patterns" (76-77). I have two questions: 1) what is he specifically referring to (what he offers he is somewhat confusing), and why does he say this? Does anyone have any experience with this who could help me understand his position?

Thanks,

Doug M

Somebody once said, "Don't believe everything you read in books."

I'm not sure who it was, maybe it was in a book.

[Doug]

It is not a question about believing what Frantzis states. It is a question about trying to find out what he means and why. But thank you for your advice--I give the same.

[Water Dragon]

IF BK Frantzis has figured out anything, it's how to dissolve his brain.

[Doug]

Guys,

If you can't help with an answer, don't post. Stop trying to hijack this thread with your own agendas.

[scholar]

It seems like he is describing something that would happen if you were to take classes from him. Think of it as a sort of advertising. Bruce is saying things like that to get you curious enough to sign up for one of his seminars. Trying to learn something like neigong from a book isn't safe, because you don't have the direct supervision of an experienced teacher in case something goes wrong. If you were to follow a regimen using only a book, one of the most common problems is that you can literally drive yourself crazy.

From an online encyclopedia entry:

"Stories of unguided practitioners or inexpertly guided students developing chronic mental and physical health problems as a result of such training are not uncommon. A term used by English speaking practitioners and teachers for one example of this syndrome is "Qigong Psychosis" which is now included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) as a culture-bound syndrome: Qi-Gong Psychotic Reaction: DSM-IV General Information: Appendix I, Outline for Cultural Formulation and Glossary of Culture-Bound Syndromes."

[alquimista]

Hello Scholar,

Do you want to tell us more information about this "Qi-Gong Psychotic Reaction: DSM-IV "? What are de symptoms?

Jorge

[scholar]

One of the basic principles of Chinese medicine is that for optimal health the systems of the body (as well as systems outside the body) should be operating with each other in a balanced way. Another theory is that the body naturally seeks to balance itself, it tends to homeostasis. Our reactions - mental, emotional, physical - to stress cause our bodies to be inhibited in their abilities to find that point where all the systems are working the way they should be. At first by stiffness and blockages in breathing and in how the metabolic heat travels through the body, later, after a long period of unresolved stress damage, more serious problems can reult, both mental and physical. Proper neigong (or styles based on neigong such as Taijiquan, Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, etc.) works to allow the normal, natural balance of systems to repair themselves more quickly. External martial arts do, too, but the internals are specifically designed (at least originally) based exclusively on these principles, and seek to repair stress damage first, and work from there to martial proficiency. Hard styles IME work from martial proficiency first, other stuff later.

So, when neigong (I pick on neigong because that is what Bruce writes about) is shown to you by someone incompetent or at least out of balance themselves (who would work the exercises out of sequence because of lack of knowledge or because of personal prejudice, for example) or is done by someone out of balance (as most beginners normally are) then the routing of energy inside the body gets done in a way that can cause trouble. Lots of things can go wrong. Some areas get too hot (yang) and burn out over time, others are neglected (yin) and atrophy. Too much in the mind, then the mind gets damaged, too much in the heart the heart gets damaged, for example. Also, neglecting the mind weakens it, neglecting the heart freezes it. A parade example is the "Tantric" New Age sex cults that have sprung up since the 60s, they spend so much time concentrating on their privates that they can end up with, erm, distasteful problems in that area. The trick is to feed all the systems equally, so that they all come up together, in a balanced way.

As for how to spot an incipient psychosis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

[Doug]

Hmmm. Interesting.

I have taken what Frantzis says about "dissolving" and used it to good effect. I think those description from his books are pretty clear and useful. This may be due to the natural ttendency I have toward acceptance of the internal principles, but the textual transmission worked nonetheless.

However, I wonder if you know what he means by "making connections or geometric patterns." Part of this curiosity is knowing what this process actually is (in explainable terms--I know that describing things of the mind can be difficult) and why someone make such "connections" and "geometric patterns." I have a good sense of connections geometry plays to martial principles, but I wonder what he means by them here.

Thanks,

Doug M

[phoenixdog]

Kumar is a cryptic teacher of martial arts. Will waste your time.His books are better to complement any other instruction.

[spiralstair]

Hi Doug,
You know how one always hears the brain talked about in terms of a "neural net"? Think of it like a fisherman's net, one made of an overarching sequence of repeating geometric shapes. It is important when working with the chi inside the brain to not mess with the shape of the net.
To stick with the metaphor one can put an unintended 'crimp' in the net, or a 'hole'. Soon your neural net catches too much of one size fish, or nothing at all.
It is better(and safer) to not attempt any directive chi work inside your brain at all, rather than following oblique directions from a book.
Good Luck.

[scholar]

I'm not sure what Bruce is on about, to tell you the truth. If I were to guess, I'd say that he is warning people to take things seriously and not play around, but that is just a guess.

I've been given instructions myself about how to think about the mental images which may pop up during neigong exercises, but it isn't the sort of thing that I would discuss with someone who wasn't a student of mine whose level of training I was well aware of. For my students, it is 5-10 years before we start to get into the advanced stuff, and that is only for exceptional students at that. The simpler things I show almost right away if they are helpful martially, as drills for coordination, stamina and power generation training; horse stances, punches, kicks, song shou, elementary breathing patterns, etc. I was taught to be sure that students are thoroughly conditioned by years of the martial art training for the advanced neigong work to be safe (or even effective).

I caution our people not to worry about what they read in books from outside schools. Wu Gongzao wrote "don't over send the qi" and the Yang/Wu classics warn that students who concentrate on qi in their training will stagnate. So we deal very little, if at all, with that concept until much, much later in our training.

[Plymouth Rocks]

So obviously if all you have done is read a book there's not much point in commenting on Kumar's knowledge or abilities.
The danger in the brain is that "lights" or areas of distict awareness can go on and if you make a concious effort these areas in some sort of pattern, without being taught what those brain centers do, can be very damaging. Kumar has some of the best neigong work I've seen, even if you don't like his marketing.
Buddy

[Doug]

It is better(and safer) to not attempt any directive chi work inside your brain at all, rather than following oblique directions from a book.
Good Luck.

Thanks to all who have provided different interpretations of what Frantzis is or could be talking about. This is the kind of thing I was looking for--not a how-to approach to book learning for such a complex idea as using qi and geometry of the mind. Having a book as a reference is one thing, but learning from it is almost always incredibly wrong when physical arts are a part of that "book learning" (meaning academic learning is not the same as "physical" or "spiritual" learning).

So I certainly hope that no one thinks I would try to play with these concepts. It was never my intention when posting this thread that I would start messing with this particular practice. It would be pointless or harmful to do so without knowing what was going on. That should be obvious.

Yet I would like to learn from Frantzis at some point in the future or, at least, from one of his students. He seems to be very good at what he does, and his texts are, for the most part, very clear with their descriptions and how-to processes.

That said, being secretive about this particular aspect of training is not helpful. I believe those who have offered specific examples to explain what Frantzis could be talking about have helped to fill in the "gaps" that Frantzis creates in his book about this peculiar aspect of training.

Thanks again, everyone.

[neilhytholt]

I don't talk anymore about politics, religion or controversial subjects.

That being said, IMHO there are a few things that one should stay far, far away from. Like gangs, nuclear waste, terrorists, those only interested in money, and those who write books for money and fame, and two people: BKF and Mantak Chia.