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Thread: Qi-Gong Psychotic Reaction: DSM-IV

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I spoke to a Psychologist once who could not believe I understood so much about the human mind without a formal Psychology degree.
    i am enjoying my custody counselling(psychotherapy) for this reason... he pretty much just stares at me with his jaw dropped to the floor every time i speak on the issues surrounding my daughter and my ex.
    I couldn't believe that it isn't common knowledge and that everyone doesn't understand that same stuff!
    that would put psychologists out of work... can't have that - paper brain's or bust is the way of the world.
    "Know yourself, and you know the world!"
    forget your self and you'll forget the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    I must be a really messed up person then...
    if you weren't messed up, life would be rather boring.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    Basically, the therapist/doctor will always choose a DSM disorder that (A) fits the patient's complaints the closest and (B) is one that the patients 3rd party payer as in Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, or whatever - will cover and pay for.

    You will NEVER see a patient in a psychiatric facility with a disorder from the DSM that is NOT one that the insurance company pays for.
    Uhhh ... you forgot the doctor function. (A) makes the doctor the most money and (B) gets the doctor the most $$$ from Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

  3. #48
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    Nope. Didn't forget it . It is just a GIVEN.

    Back in the day when I worked in Psych hospitals and then as a counselor, I actually ran into only two honorable psychiatrists.

    One would only admit a patient to the hospital when they were truly dangerous to themselves or other people. Her patients came in and were always in the locked ward for being dangerous or were on suicide watch. She used drugs in those cases liberally...so she could get them stable enough to go home and then did all of her real therapy in one on one sessions and group therapy...and she did her own groups.

    We saw about 2 or 3 patients for her in a year and none were ever hospitalized for more than 2 weeks...and the amount of drugs she used decreased to a level that kept them safe but also left them lucid.

    The other worked mainly with adolescents. He used the hospital to mainly keep the kid from becoming a run away statistic and living on the street. He rarely had a patient who was in locked ward - unless it was a kid who got into a fight and the hospital rules required the transfer.

    Two out of 30+ - not a good percentage.

  4. #49

    Good information on treatment

    GLW,

    The therapy you write about is the best treatment for mental illness. Your doctor had found it possibly accidentally.

    Once the acute phase is complete just changing the patients daily activities will cause a remission.

    Another good therapy is exercise like running. That takes the subject away from potential Subliminal Distraction exposure.

  5. #50
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    To clarify...not MY doctor...one of the ones who had admitting privileges to the Psych hospital I worked for.

    I am not sure how both of them came up with their therapeutic approaches...but they were the only two I really respected...and the only ones who had a decent rate of actually HELPING the patient.

    The others...well, one had a majority of patients that had X number of days where the insurance would pay for treatment. Then Y number of days the patient had to be out of the hospital before they could be re-admitted. Funny how their progress to discharge followed that calendar. If they had 60 days of treatment and then 60 days out, they could be totally divorced from reality with acute paranoid schizophrenia at 48 days....and be absolutely well enough to go home at 58 days...and back in at 61 days after that.

    I actually had to assist on a number of Electro-Convulsive Therapies (ECT of shock treatment) - and the typical ECT patient was a paranoid schizophrenic. Now, at the time ECT was ONLY indicated for extreme cases of depression where suicide was highly likely...sort of a method to buy time for drugs and therapy to work...but I NEVER saw it used that way. Shocking a schizophrenic was the standard....and KNOWN to not really work anyway.

    The mental health providers - psychiatrists and psychiatric nurses - were often part of the problem. I personally got out of it when we had a patient commit suicide by hanging himself with a necktie from his shower curtain rod...he was known to be a suicide risk...and should never have been in a room with a shower curtain rod and definitely no necktie.

    The staff on that ward liked to sit behind the desk instead of mingling with the patients and keeping up on what was going on in the day areas, their rooms, etc...

    Patient died on a Tuesday. I had Wed and Thur. off. Came back on Friday and the same staff were on duty...doing EXACTLY the same things - staying behind the desk...doing rounds once an hour on the hour....and I went down and resigned effective the end of my shift that day.

  6. #51

    Good observations

    GLW,

    The wording "your doctor" should have been 'that doctor' or 'the doctor.' My mis-wording. I did understand that you worked with the doctor.

    You are exactly correct in your observations. Going back to my original post, "There is no 'testable objective evidence' that any current treatment for mental illness does anything."


    That includes ECT! Shocking the patient does cause a temporary remission but when the brain repairs that damage the symptoms return.

    My mother had ECT when I was about eight years old. She lived a normal life span but never recovered her memory. She had severe problems from that ECT treatment most of her life.

    I did not learn about what should be done until I began to investigate Subliminal Distraction after my wife had a psychotic break in the pay roll office of the University of Alabama. It happened thirty days after her office was changed eliminating Cubicle Level Protection.

    I thought everyone knew why the cubicle was created. I was stunned to learn this phenomenon, discovered and solved forty years ago, is unknown in any area of mental health services.

  7. #52
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    It is amazing to me how such things can affect our lives.

    In my case, my father had a "nervous breakdown" - as they called it in the 60's when I was in 4th or 5th grade. He went from a private hospital to a VA hospital to private one and so on. They tried barbaric medications. The psychiatrist then asked to see everyone in the family group and individual to 'help' deal with things.

    At one point, he prescribed ECT for my father. There were 6 or 7 treatments over a period of around 2 months. After each one, my father's personality was different. He was still him...but different aspects of his personality came out as being the predominant one. Now, mind you, his original diagnosis was borderline schizophrenia and adult adjustment reaction (some elements of depression were probably also thrown in). At no time was he ever suicidal..but he DID have a temper and could lose control over his anger and impulses.

    The doctor went a couple of treatments too far with virtually no counseling therapy. And I saw my father's personality dimmed with those last two treatments.

    He was then put into the state hospital. It was then that I left to go to the National Asthma Center residence school - asthma can be a real life threatening thing. While in Denver, the FINALLY had a neurological consultation on my father. A simple Babinski reflex test told the tale. That is the test where they run the stick or something on the bottom of your bare foot. In an normal infant and adult with neurological problems, the toes fan out one way. In a normal adult, they go the opposite way.

    This is a typical test that any GP should do...and any competent psychiatrist should have verified had been done.

    My father's was abnormal. Further tests led them to surmise Alzheimer's - presenile dementia - rare to have an onset in the late 30's early 40's..but not unheard of.

    The ECT probably shortened his functional time by years. He deteriorated and ended up in a nursing home. The time from first symptom to death was 18 years....totally atypical. The autopsy showed it was NOT Alzheimer's but rather MS. Whereas MS USUALLY attacks the muscles and associated nerves, in this case, the deterioration was the myelin of the nerves in the central nervous system and cerebral cortex.

    The original psychiatrist did not even do the basic "let's rule out physical causes first" type of tests...and then went on to violate the first rule of his Hippocratic oath - "First, do no harm"

    I originally went into the psych field to see if I could make a difference due to my experience with growing up. However, after working with the loons who were the caregivers, I left the field, went back and got an engineering degree...and developed a major distaste for psychiatrists.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    Patient died on a Tuesday. I had Wed and Thur. off. Came back on Friday and the same staff were on duty...doing EXACTLY the same things - staying behind the desk...doing rounds once an hour on the hour....and I went down and resigned effective the end of my shift that day.
    I understand your feelings on the matter.

    I worked for 4 years under similar, but different circumstances. It was within a prison environment. I have observed the same staff behaviors. There are few Psychiatrists I respect, but a few more Psychologists.

    I tried not to worry about what others did and focused more on developing a beneficial relationship with my patients. You can't save everyone, but you can make a difference with some and that made it worthwhile for me.

  9. #54
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    I recently had a psychologist friend who is trying to earn her masters try to assess me as mentally disabled (I have a habit of when I think of a kata sometimes trying out the movements with my hands a little bit -- I don't do it at work but sometimes I do it when I'm watching a fight sequence on T.V. or lounging around when I'm bored). I tried to explain to her what I was doing, but she got weird, and wouldn't listen.

    I tried to explain to her that the psychologist that I was seeing for stress reduction (helping me be less stressed out) seemed to think that I was okay.

    So I asked a psychologist what the requirements were for actually being disabled this way -- if I could get social security or something -- I asked kindof like a joke.

    She basically said that if I can function in a class, function on a job, function in society, and talk to her cogently like I was doing.

    I don't qualify as mentally disabled! (Egads ... no social security and free money for me).

  10. #55
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    and there you have a line that many therapists like psychiatrists, psychologists, and other types of psychotherapists cross all too frequently.

    You can be a person's friend and you can be a person's therapist. However, you can't be both at the same time.

    If you are a therapist and try to make your patients friends, you often lose the ability to do the confrontation or to have the objectivity that is required.

    If you have a friend and try to be their therapist, you very often lose a friend.

    I know of a number of therapists who have not made this distinction...and virtually all that do not end up with many problems from it.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    I know of a number of therapists who have not made this distinction...and virtually all that do not end up with many problems from it.
    I have found that in the end, I lost ALL my friends that turned psychotherapist.

    They just couldn't help analyzing me and other people. It got annoying, so I went away.

    They ALWAYS try to find some problem with the person. This wasn't the first case. This was the first time anybody tried to compare me to a crippled retard, though. I must be slipping up somewhere. LOL

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    and there you have a line that many therapists like psychiatrists, psychologists, and other types of psychotherapists cross all too frequently.

    You can be a person's friend and you can be a person's therapist. However, you can't be both at the same time.

    If you are a therapist and try to make your patients friends, you often lose the ability to do the confrontation or to have the objectivity that is required.

    If you have a friend and try to be their therapist, you very often lose a friend.

    I know of a number of therapists who have not made this distinction...and virtually all that do not end up with many problems from it.
    this concept should be tattooed onto the foreheads of EVERY therapist, psycho- or otherwise; PT's especially need to be very clear in their boundaries, as we are often doing hands-on work for extended periods of time, and it can be very intense sometimes - I still find it risible that in PT school NO ONE talked about transference / countertransference, which absolutely can happen in a non "talking cure" setting!

    my "golden rule" is that once you become a formal patient of mine, that is the defining relationship for life - meaning no socializing, romancing, doing business, doing favors, etc.; a bit harsh, perhaps, but in the long run, much cleaner for everyone...

    and if you ever meet a patient in public, don't say hi - acknowledge them, but let them be the one to say hi first; if you have to think about why, you should be in another field...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    my "golden rule" is that once you become a formal patient of mine, that is the defining relationship for life - meaning no socializing, romancing, doing business, doing favors, etc.; a bit harsh, perhaps, but in the long run, much cleaner for everyone.
    good thing i am no patient of yours.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    good thing i am no patient of yours.
    sig worthy!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    sig worthy!
    somewhere... somehow... they all are.

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