Jow Ga vids

[brothernumber9]

all technicalities aside of what styles exactly influenced what, perhaps what Sifu Kaparos was inferring to was the rumors or speculations that either Jow Biu or Jow Lung had learned some Choy Lay Fut in addition to Choy Ga and Hung Ga, and that at least had a visible influence in Jow Ga's flow and set designs?

I'm sure Sifu Johnson has some knowledge or insight on that, one way or another.

On a tangent, I am curious what the Hung influence on Choy Lay Fut is or was?

[CLFNole]

I would say the hung influence to CLF was more of an indirect one. That being many CLF sifus had some hung backgrounds prior to learning CLF and thus some hung influence was seen. Also it could be said that what Chan Hueng's uncle learned could have had some hung style in it as it is generally referred to as siu lum and not that specific.

I think some people have been taught that the Choy in CLF is from Choy Gar; however many were taught it is just from Choy Fook, who gave CLF its northern influence.

In any event just about all of the southern long arm styles share similarities and techniques be it hung gar, CLF, jow gar, lama/hop gar/baak hook, hung fut, etc...

[Tai-Lik]

one of the styles initially used to create jow ga was "CHOY GA" (Choy Gau Yee AND Choy Bak Tat).

Tai Lik

[Eric Ling]

“I'm sure Sifu Johnson has some knowledge or insight on that, one way or another.”

Sifu Johnson? Sifu Derek Johnson?

I called Sifu Johnson when I was out in Denver. In fact he was in a middle of a stake out; he is a cop right? We were talking about a face to face.

Derek was in Singapore and he did a fantastic job in wowing the audience with his performance. So before I left for the states, Sifu Fong Fook Wah (my wife’s Zhou Jia teacher) suggested I go see him….

Anyhow, never happen cause he was in Baltimore (I think) and I never had the chance to be in that part.

Imho, the Bak Siu Lum portion of Zhou Jia is clearly reflected in the aerial kicks and ground works.

Singapore’s Zhou Jia does a form that is very “military” with many clear Northern characteristic movements. The form brings to mind the “Tam Tui” that is done by Chin Wu folks.

One technique, in particular, stands out in Zhou Jia; the jumping, landing and sliding out side kick done on the ground. You see this in the Zhou Jia clip I posted.

This manner of kicking, to me, spells Northern.

Southerners would do the same but without the jumping. That or they stick to “iron broom”.

Regards.

[Tai-Lik]

Hi Eric how are you & greetings to all the jow ga/zhou jia people in Singapore/malaysia. i'm still a cop

please check your PM

Best regards
Derek Johnson (Tai Lik)

[Eric Ling]

Hi Derek,

So it's really you.

“Tai Lik” - how very appropriate. I can personally vouch for that.

Derek, folks in Singapore are still talking about this non-Chinese who stole the limelight during the Zhou Jia performance.

There you go, got to be careful with what you do…hahaha.

My greeting to all Zhou Jia brothers and sisters at your end.

Warmest Regards.

[Tai-Lik]

these vid links are working again:

Man Gee Dsui Chak (1/2)
www.jowtigers.com/movies/2manset.WMV

1/4 "Gwok Gee Kune"
(the clip title says Chai Jong, but the title is incorrect)
www.jowtigers.com/movies/william_form.wmv

Greencloud: how you doing? it was good to see you at the tourny last week. you looked good

Brothernumber9: Hello. yes i've heard of a RUMOR about some sort of a relationship/friendship between one of the brothers and a choy li fut sifu, but this was after the Jow Ga Gwoon (Yun Yee Tong) was established. Again this is only a rumor & the extent of the relationship would only be speculation.

it's reasonable to consider that during this era, maybe many styles were influenced by each other.

within jow ga there are 5 Jow brothers (jow lung, hip, biu, hoy, tin) who brought there own unique characteristics and influences to their own lines along with the core qualities that make jow ga, jow ga. In the u.s. most people are witnessing what has been refered to as jow biu lineage. From a historical stand point, i think many people would find it interesting to watch Jow Hip, Jow Tin lines etc. performing the same core forms as our jow biu line.

i would be interested & appreciate any information on choy ga vs. choy li fut. i have choy li fut friends who say that the "choy" in choy li fut is not from "Choy ga" and i have other choy li fut friends who speculate that the "choy" in choy li fut IS the same as the "choy ga".

i have a friend from china who says that he has seen "choy ga" not referring to choy li fut and HE says that many of the choy li fut tradmark techniques were in a particular choy ga form he saw. i hope to see for myself next year, since i've never seen "pure choy ga" and choy ga seems to be really rare.

there are obviously alot of people on this forum who have much more knowledge & expertise in kung fu history than i do, so i would be interested in hearing any feedback or input.

regards
Tailik

[CLFNole]

It is generally known that the Choy in CLF is from Choy Fook, who was one of Chan Hueng's teachers. Choy Gar is one of the more well known southern family styles that being hung, lau, choy, lay and mok. The Lay in CLF comes from Lay Yau San, who was the founder of Lay Gar.

Choy Gar as mentioned earlier was founded by Choy Gau Yee. Choy Fook was said to have brought the northern influence of siu lum to CLF. He brought in his knowledge of the siu lum wooden man hall and thus CLF's extensive dummies. If he was a Choy Gar stylist why would he have been at siu lum? Maybe to enhance his skills and becuase he was a buddhist but he is generally taught of as siu lum as CLF is generally regarded as coming from siu lum.

While Choy Gar may have many techniques that look like CLF so does hung gar, jow gar and hung fut. I think if you put a lot of the southern styles and southern family styles together they would all have a lot of similarities. Many of the family styles are rare now and it would be interesting to learn more of their history and whether or not their beginnings were from siu lum. I would guess most if not all have some links and thus all the similarities between different styles.

Like Ben Gash said earlier with CLF you can definately see some of the "whipping" power seen in northern styles like pek gwar, tong bei, etc... that you don't see in most southern systems.

The truth of the matter is not enough is truly known and much of the old history has been lost.

[xSHoX]

Very nice videos.

A slight question, did you guys shorten the form purposely? In our Jow Ga school our similar forms are much longer.

[Tai-Lik]

xshox: yes we shortened the forms to allow for more time during the opening ceremony lion dance.

CLFNole wrote:

While Choy Gar may have many techniques that look like CLF so does hung gar, jow gar and hung fut. I think if you put a lot of the southern styles and southern family styles together they would all have a lot of similarities.

I agree

[Fu-Pow]

Fu pau??? don't know what your talking about but I am very good friends with several Jow Ga sifus and based on my discussions with them they them selves admit to the hung and CLF influences.

Hung Ga Choy ga and Bak sing are all part of the CLF system.

PFFFFFT... you know do the math Choy ga + li ga + fut ga all = choy li fut stupid.

Don't tell me PFFT. That's just arogant, what exposure have you had when it comes to Jow Ga hell I've seen Jow Ga perfomed at Tourneys so many times I know the forms my self.

greencloud.net

Your statement that "Choy ga + li ga + fut ga all = choy li fut" is highly debatable. The connection between Choy Ga and Choy Li Fut is dubious and Fut in Choy Lay Fut doesn't refer to the style Fut Ga, it refers to Shaolin in a general way or possibly something akin to Hung Ga.

The only part of that statement that isn't debatable is the connection between Li Ga and Choy Li Fut because Li Yau San was the founder of Li Ga the style but was also a teacher of Chan Heung.

[Fu-Pow]

BTW, really nice forms. Very solid and lots of power. Thoroughly enjoyed watching them.

[Strife]

anyone know of jow gar instructional dvds/videos?

[Eric Ling]

Hi Derek,

“i have a friend from china who says that he has seen "choy ga" not referring to choy li fut and HE says that many of the choy li fut tradmark techniques were in a particular choy ga form he saw. i hope to see for myself next year, since i've never seen "pure choy ga" and choy ga seems to be really rare.”

If you are visiting Singapore again, ask GM Li or Sifu Fong.

They should be able to point out the “Choy Gar” folks in Singapore to you.

There was even a book published by Singapore “Choy Gar” some 10 – 15 years back.

I’ve seen some of their stuff and their palm works are really something to behold.

For CLF, the “Hong Sing Koon” folks are still around in the Geylang area – about ½ hour away from our Jow Gar koon in Chinatown. Hong Sing Koon in Singapore was founded by the late GM. Kwan Mun Keng.

If you are keen in histories and such, another good place to visit is “Kwong Chow Hui Koon” which is located right behind our Jow Gar Koon. This koon must be at least 50 – 60 years old and they should be able to tell you quite a bit.

The “resident” style taught there is Hungga. However, they also did CLF in the past.

Bak Siu Lum is a distinct style of CKF. I know that it’s popular these days to use the moniker “BSL” to point to generic Northern arts.

Chin Woo or Jin Moo was, more or less, the home of BSL in Singapore.

Chi Lu – another koon in Singapore was teaching BSL together with Weito Men.

Chi Lu is still operating and if you, by any chance, want to visit these guys, just let me know.

Tell me when you plan to be there exactly and I’ll work my schedule.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Tai-Lik]

Eric think you very, very much. An introduction to the choy ga people in Singapore would be greatly appreciated.

Please send my regards to GM Li and Sifu Fong, and thanks for your assistance

Derek