Stomach ulcers

[Sang Feng Fan]

75% of gastric and 90% of duodenal ulcers are caused by Helicobacter pylori. That's a pretty high ratio and your personal results do not reflect the norm.

Hopefully, telling people ulcers are caused by bacterial infection will most likely result in them going to see a professional instead of them sitting around and "trying to worry less." On this thread alone, Oso had no idea that bacteria could be responsible because people have been saying ulcers are caused by stressed for so long that everyone just assumes it's always true.

Anyone who treats themselves based on the opinions posted on a kung fu message board gets what they deserve.

Statistics refer to the population, diagnosis to the individual. Your statement, regardless of the statistics was irresponsible.

[neilhytholt]

75% of gastric and 90% of duodenal ulcers are caused by Helicobacter pylori. That's a pretty high ratio and your personal results do not reflect the norm.

Hopefully, telling people ulcers are caused by bacterial infection will most likely result in them going to see a professional instead of them sitting around and "trying to worry less." On this thread alone, Oso had no idea that bacteria could be responsible because people have been saying ulcers are caused by stressed for so long that everyone just assumes it's always true.

Anyone who treats themselves based on the opinions posted on a kung fu message board gets what they deserve.

Well it's kindof like saying that cavities are 'caused' by bacteria. Well, yes, the cavities are caused by the acids produced by the bacteria.

But what helps the bacteria to grow is lactose, sucrose and glucose, and not cleaning the teeth and eliminating the plaque and bacteria colonies.

So what may 'cause' the ulcer is the bacteria, but why are the bacteria there in the first place?

[herb ox]

Oso -

Check out the journal Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy at http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/48/6/1983
Researchers found bismuth to reduce H. pylori levels to below the threshold of detection apparently by limiting the amount of iron the bacteria can uptake, thereby limiting bacterial function.

Other researchers found bismuth to cause disruptive swelling of the h. pylori cell walls. See http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...tract/43/5/659 for the abstract of the publication.

Finally, the National Institutes on Health (NIH) list bismuth subsalicate as one of the meds used to treat peptic ulcers. Their info clearinghouse website also reinforces MasterKiller's statement of peptic ulcers being caused primarily by an infection of H. Pylori, not stress or diet. In fact, the site lists asprin and ibuprofin (NSAIDS) as another cause of peptic ulcers. See http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/

Regardless of whether you examine the bacterial cause of the ulcer or the underlying issues of the immune system, one should consult a primary care practicioner. There's nothing wrong, however, with sharing experiences and asking for information or educating our faithful readers.

Debate to your heart's content, but play nicely! We all bring different backrounds and experiences to the table - all information is useful when put in to perspective.

peace

herb ox

[neilhytholt]

The symptom they are treating is the bacteria. But why are the bacteria there?

Are the bacteria there because too much acid in the stomach? Or some other reason?

Just blaming the bacteria isn't necessarily correct. I've known several people who got ulcers from too much aspirin as well, so bacteria is definitely not the only cause.

[MasterKiller]

In 2005, the doctors who discovered the link between H. pylori and ulcers were given the Nobel Prize. That in of itself is pretty significant.

Fact is, 50 to 75% of the world's human stomachs are infested with H. pylori, and 70% of those infections show no symptoms at all. In the absence of antibiotic based treatments, H. pylori infection apparently persists for life; the human immune system is not able to eradicate it.

[Oso]

Thanks, herb ox.

It seems then, that there may be a link between ulcers and stress in that it's known to depress immune systems. Perhaps the stress reduces a necessary immune function in the stomach system that would ordinarily prevent the H. pylori form causing the ulcer.

[neilhytholt]

In 2005, the doctors who discovered the link between H. pylori and ulcers were given the Nobel Prize. That in of itself is pretty significant.

Fact is, 50 to 75% of the world's human stomachs are infested with H. pylori, and 70% of those infections show no symptoms at all. In the absence of antibiotic based treatments, H. pylori infection apparently persists for life; the human immune system is not able to eradicate it.

Do you understand the cavities analogy? I guess not. Oh. well.

Nobel prize means nothing.

And Einstein just re-stated other physicists thinking in an easily readable form and took the credit.

And most doctors are just drug-pushers.

Next topic?

[qiphlow]

well, i know for a fact that 100% of people who were diagnosed with ulcers were, in fact, born. therefore, i can say with 100% certainty that the root cause of ulcers is birth. i do not, unfortunately, have a solution.

[MasterKiller]

Do you understand the cavities analogy? I guess not. Oh. well.

Nobel prize means nothing.

And Einstein just re-stated other physicists thinking in an easily readable form and took the credit.

And most doctors are just drug-pushers.

Next topic?

I thought you were only a ****ing idiot when it came to women! Silly me...

[neilhytholt]

I thought you were only a ****ing idiot when it came to women! Silly me...

Okay, I'll try to write this more like Scott Brown, since he's so good at elucidating his points.

Cavities are caused by bacteria. Or, you could say, cavities are caused by the acids which are produced as a byproduct of the bacteria metabolizing sugars in your mouth.

Or you could say that sugars in your mouth causes colonies of bacteria to grow in your mouth, which causes acid, which causes cavities.

Or you could say that eating too many sweets or simple sugars, or milk products (lactose) causes sugars in your mouth, which causes colonies of bacteria, which causes acid, which causes cavities.

So how do you treat cavities? You can plug them (fillings). You can brush your teeth better. Or you can stop eating so many simple sugars. Or you can somehow try to not introduce the bacteria (which is difficult since bacteria are coating just about everything everywhere).

Did you know that you can even transfer the bacteria through kissing? Yes, cavities or at least certain strains of bacteria can be transferred even through kissing or sharing cups, glasses, etc. Some strains of bacteria are worse than others.

Okay.

So now let's take ulcers. Ulcers are a breakdown of the lining of the stomach wall, which if not treated, will eventually break through and cause a rupture, whereby the contents of the stomach (strong acids) will enter the body cavities, causing internal bleeding among other things, and blood will also enter the stomach.

Not very good.

So what causes ulcers? Is it the bacteria? Why are the bacteria there? What are they feeding off of? If a healthy person does not have ulcers, then why do they not have ulcers? Is it something the person ate? Did they ingest the bacteria?

So assuming that the bacteria eat away at the stomach lining, how does this occur?

So this doctors findings were that if he ate the bacteria, he'd get the disease. He reasoned that this means the bacteria cause the disease.

But how'd the bacteria get there in the first place? Were they always there? Were they from eating? Or were they there in small quantities and was there a population explosion because of some internal or external factor?

It's well known that your gut, for example, is host to many different types of bacteria. Changes to your body's PH balance, for example, will change the types of bacteria that grow in your gut. They also change the type of bacteria that grow on your skin, causing it to stink in different ways.

In fact, if you kill off the healthy bacteria in your gut, a lot of times bad bacteria will grow, which causes stinky ****s, for example.

Pickles ... why do people eat pickles? It's because eating certain foods can cause bad bacteria to bloom in the gut. It's not for taste. People found that eating pickles can simplify the intestinal bacteria.

So is it possible that the bacteria are naturally occurring, but that people with ulcers have a larger percentage of them (an outbreak) than normal people? He did nothing to discount this theory.

So basically he figured out that bacteria causes ulcers, just like bacteria cause cavities.

But HE DID NOT FIGURE OUT THE ROOT CAUSE, which is what causes the bacterial blooms in these people.

Which still could be diet, stress, or alcohol, etc.

Get it?

And I won't go into the thinking of the physics around the time Einstein created his theory of relativity at and all that. Let's just say that the logical outcome of the Michelson-Morley experiment was the theory of relativity and it was on the tongues of the physicists of the time, and that Einstein just put it into a simple document that was easy to understand.

Therefore people think he was a genius.

If Scott R. Brown comes across and reads this, he'll expound upon what I've written in a much better reasoned manner, and you'll think he's a genius, and I'm an idiot.

So whatever.

[Oso]

and to sumarise neilhyholtishbiem....

(btw, $5 to the person who gets the reference....)

IS IT THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?????????????????

CUZ, if it was the egg...then it figured out E=MC2 way before anyone else did and is sitting back drinkin' margaritas with Bionce on his lap about now.

[neilhytholt]

and to sumarise neilhyholtishbiem....

(btw, $5 to the person who gets the reference....)

IS IT THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?????????????????

CUZ, if it was the egg...then it figured out E=MC2 way before anyone else did and is sitting back drinkin' margaritas with Bionce on his lap about now.

Well, kindof hard to make money off of E=MC2. You have to have an audience who thinks that it's actually useful to sell it to.

You know, people are kindof limited, don't you think?. ~6.3 billion out of 6.3 billion don't understand very basic things, like the feeding of the 5000.

But that's okay ... they'd rather be sitting with Beonce on their lap, and they don't even accomplish that. Well, maybe a few get to sit with Beonce on their lap. Not me ...

There's an old saying from China. There's this very famous doctor, famous throughout all of China, and they ask him why he's so famous.

He says, "Well, really I'm nothing. My brother, he cures disease when it just starts to show up. His name doesn't make it out of the village."

"My older brother, he cures disease before it starts to form, so his name doesn't get out of the house."

"Myself, I prescribe various herbs and potions, curing some people after they're very sick, and therefore I'm famous throughout all of China."

[Oso]

hey, just reread what I posted last night and realizd it might seem like I was slamming you by playing with your alias...wasn't, just having fun.

[qiphlow]

i still think i'm right...

[cha kuen]

yes tcm can, go find an acupucntursit.