What is MMA'S Impact on Kung-Fu Should MMA be its' on Art Now?

[Knifefighter]

I'm sorry that you are naive to good Taiji, where do you live?...maybe I could recommend a good teacher to give you a friendly demonstration.

I'm on FP's ignore list, so maybe someone can ask him to recommend one of these Taji players who cannot be taken down who might be in the Los Angeles, CA area.

I'd love a demonstration of this.

Of course, I'm guessing that, conveniently, none of them are around here.

[hskwarrior]

when i said "Bite" i meant steal, sorry.

[unkokusai]

You will not "break" a good Taiji players balance. It would be like a mouse trying "off-balance" a water balloon.

...................

[unkokusai]

It would never go there.

HAHAAAHHAAAhahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Ou Ji: Jesse's experience, as far as i know, is largely point sparring in a competitive format, but.. his size and willingness to engage seems to neutralize most aggressors in the street scene.. playing around with Jesse you get the sense of being a mouse in a cat's game.. Troy wasn't at that particular meeting, but.. if you know Troy, his first remark would be , Cool, let's do THAT.. actually, i think he was on one of his early retreats out to Dan Innosanto's place.. i don't think i've ever met someone so willing to explore every possibility of combat as Troy.. and, annoying as it is, he gets good at anything "new" very quickly.. note: Troy is now a certified Orange County Firefighter/EMT.. another of his "I'm gonna do that" things... he's also training with Raffi again..

Now, i'm curious.. how do you know us? Are you a former/current Temple dweller? Do you know Cliff, the Ninjitsu guy? deceptively impressive! Cliff had classes at Troy's and my school (Extreme Harmony), and i've learned to appreciate much of the Ninjitsu wisdoms, simple and effective.. Troy's Muay Thai and Mo Hahn classes were great.. his natural talent for JKD, though, is nothing short of impressive..

Anyway, i responded from a perspective of personal values.. i do not question or comment on other people's abilities, regardless of my familiarity.. if i have issues with someone's claims, i PM them directly.. i do engage in lively banter regarding the arts themselves.. i will describe my training and some of my experience (there's still warrants on some of it ), but i never make a claim as to my own quality.. the only evidence of anyone's quality is in the crossing of hands.. i hope you understand that my response was well intended, and.. if you know the circles i/we run in (from sedate Taiji classes to Muldoon's Biker Bar) you understand that last line..

By the way, Rick Barrett is having a seminar this weekend over at Nick's school in Dunedin.. if you're interested, i will forward you the info.. and, i am hosting Dr. Yang again this coming January...

Be well...

[Ou Ji]

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. The forum must be getting to you. You still doing the parking garage training?

I'm not real big on Nick Scrima's stuff but who is Rick Barrett?

Not really into the Tai Chi ball either. Will he offer a day of Chin Na or apps? I might head down there for some good Chin Na.

[lostdragon]

I didn't have time to go through all the posts, so I hope I'm not repeating a lot of what is been said. I think the impact of MMA on kung fu is/will be having to consider the martial side of the martial arts.

Some people may consider this a challenge to their "turf". I consider it an opportunity for those that desire to be realistic with regards to fighting to evaluate what it is that they do and become more effective in certain situations. Where other people may believe that there are two separate entities -- traditional training and fighting -- I do not. You should be able to fight with what you know, and if you're not, you're not studying something that is applicable to combat.

And yes, mixed martial arts are not necessarily an exact replication of street fighting, but they do advance certain thematic elements of fighting to the forefront. I suppose that I am also thinking of not just mixed martial arts, it also street fighting, backyard brawling, etc. -- the ability shoot video inexpensively and disseminate that through various video serviceshas also provided information about fighting that I don't think has been around for the mass public to evaluate before.

I hope, very much, this is not interpreted as a challenge to traditional Chinese martial arts at all -- but rather interpreted as a call to reevaluate how to apply the vast repository of knowledge that's found therein. Some of what is done is very flowery, and not very practical-- or better stated has a very limited scope of practical application. Other stuff is very practical most of the time.

The answer is not to be found in redefining TCMA to look more like jujitsu or karate or kickboxing or anything else -- it is found in looking at what one has, in considering how it is to be effective in combat. A huge mistake that many people make is to assume that combat will adhere to one's technique or style. Rather a style should be used as a starting point to learn the principles and concepts of solid fundamental skills, tactics, strategies, mindsets in order to be effective in a real fight.

anyway, I'm probably repeating what everyone else has said. It is always a pleasure to read what people are writing when I have the time to do so. and again, I hope my comments are not interpreted as a challenge to how people are training. Not everyone wants to train to be effective from a combative standpoint-- other people simply like to tradition, the effects on physical, mental, emotional, spiritual well-being or what have you. That's okay -- but I find it concerning when the same people feel they're adequately prepared to handle something that they may not be, and end up getting hurt.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Ou Ji: You didn't ruffle my feathers.. i felt compelled to express my value system in an attempt to deflect the possibility of dialogue that might reach the level of ruffles.. i have no issue with the current state of affairs, and appreciate the dialogue.. Occasionally, the forum does "get to me".. i am amazed at the levels people will go to in an effort to impress others or enhance their own image of themselves.. I am amazed at the disrespect people show toward others, it is a poor representation of a discipline that teaches "self-control"..

Friday, Jan. 12 will be Chin Na from 6:00p-9:00P.. Sat. will be Taiji Ball all day.. Sun. will be Push-hands, internal structure.. all day..

Rick Barrett: http://www.taichialchemy.com/RickBarrett.htm

This isn't Nick's stuff, it's Rick's hands-on study relating to his book: Through the Western Gate.. i wouldn't recommend it if i didn't feel it had real merit.. I've read the book and done a 1 hour seminar with him at Nick's tournament, it is sufficiently intriguing to warrant further investigation on my part.. in short, he offers very convincing evidence (physical and text) of the, generally, untapped power of our Connective Tissue system.. i have been experimenting with this concept since the seminar and find no inconsistencies with the theory or practice.. in as much as i can practice based on a 1 hour seminar and a book.. that's why i want to have a more in-depth experience, to test this concept in a more valid setting and with someone that seems to have a good handle on it.. Most of my students are attending based on my limited demonstrations of what i gained from the seminar..

I see that you have avoided the query of identity.. are you PL? I feel at a disadvantage not having any idea with whom i am communicating when you seem to have a notion of who i am.. just asking?

Be well..

[PangQuan]

I read only too much of your nonsense. Half-hearted disclaimers aside, you go ahead and depend on biting people's fingers. You'll end up with what you deserve.

i find you can learn a lot about a person by thier responses to something they dont like.

for instance, i mention biting. you automatically assume thats all i do. for your information i never have bitten anyone, nor do i plan to unless i absolutely have to.

for instance i learned from your responses, that you like to formulate your own ideas of what people are and what they do, and then you believe your dribbled nonsense.

classic man, utterly classic. continue on captain delusional.

[KC Elbows]

I'm on FP's ignore list, so maybe someone can ask him to recommend one of these Taji players who cannot be taken down who might be in the Los Angeles, CA area.

I'd love a demonstration of this.

Of course, I'm guessing that, conveniently, none of them are around here.

Not that he claims to be "unthrowable", he'd probably agree that what makes you hard to throw from one direction at one moment makes you an easy target from a slightly different angle, but there's a guy in the San Diego area by the name of Michael Reyes, a cma internalist who trained in a variety of other styles, who is friendly to cross hands with and is willing to show what he does. If you are in that area and want to meet with him for a friendly deal, I'd be happy to arrange it.

[SevenStar]

Another benefit a lot of people don't talk about is that when you hold, you learn to track punches. After a while, they just don't seem as fast. You also learn where the punch is coming from so that helps with your defense immensely. The cool thing is, you don't even have to focus on it. It just happens!

yeah, I stress this with my new guys. they tend to just hold the mitts there and wander off in space. I make them focus on watching their partner's movements. I also have them move around eachother, and the padholders keep the striking surface hidden until they want their partner to strike. This gets them used to movement while striking and trains the reaction time of the puncher.

[Knifefighter]

Not that he claims to be "unthrowable", he'd probably agree that what makes you hard to throw from one direction at one moment makes you an easy target from a slightly different angle, but there's a guy in the San Diego area by the name of Michael Reyes, a cma internalist who trained in a variety of other styles, who is friendly to cross hands with and is willing to show what he does. If you are in that area and want to meet with him for a friendly deal, I'd be happy to arrange it.

Not what I'm looking for at all.
I've seen plenty of people who can be taken down or thrown.
I'm looking to see a demonstration from one of Fu Pow's "unthrowable" guys.
He said he could set people up with one of these guys and I'm interested.

[KC Elbows]

Not what I'm looking for at all.
I've seen plenty of people who can be taken down or thrown.
I'm looking to see a demonstration from one of Fu Pow's "unthrowable" guys.
He said he could set people up with one of these guys and I'm interested.

I was posting that more if you wanted to see someone who can fight functionally with ima and explain their approach in a real manner.

The obvious problem with the idea of the unthrowable master of an art with a substantial throwing component, like tai chi, is that if two such masters come in contact, a black hole will form, killing us all. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[mantis053]

I think that there are alot of schools out there that have become to commercial over the years. There alot of schools that are interested in only making money and not really teaching students how to defend them selves. The mma has xposed those schools what they are. Because of schools like that. All the other schools are getting a bad rap a long with them. We say that the style is no good when we should be looking at the school and teacher indivisually. Take Chuck Linndell for an example. He is a striker and he is the champ. Most of his fights were won knocking his oppistion out. Does it mean that another style of fighting isn't good. No!!! It just means that he has a good teacher at good school and it also depends on the person.

As far as mma as an art no because mma represents all the diiferents arts in the world. The mma gave dirrerent arts a place to compete against each other. That's why it is called mixed martial arts. If you wanted to condsider the schools that have mixed different arts together to make one then I would say yes. The mma has made a big impact on the martial arts world. Because ultimatelly in the end a martial arts school must make sure that there students can handle the burden of the real thing and is able to defend them selves in a fight. Well all of you have good afternoon.

SIGNNING OFF NOBBY