I hate training with women.

[travelsbyknight]

Here's the truth, buddies.

MOST of the time women don't get raped by "some hell bent dude who attacks them in the back seat of their car." Most rapes are perpetrated by someone the woman knows and it usually happens in her house/apa
rtment/dorm room. Go figure. The movies have put a false view in our heads. I'm starting to disagree with the way this topic is going. Train women the way they are attacked? So that means a woman shouldn't learn pak sao in a wing chun school since she won't get mugged that way? I guess she should master swimming so it will be easier to slide her body out from under that of a gigantic man attacker.

I'm talking about KUNG FU training. How are we going to train women in kung fu??? I want to chi sao with that little woman I mentioned in the origional post and not feel like I can just pick her up and throw up out the window, go get a milkshake and then bring her back for more after I'm done. I guess she has to start working on hitting harder, aggressiveness in general, more speed, less sticking and more sensitivity.

But how? THe women I train with are too willy nilly. I'm not saying this about all women but I have yet to meet one that I like training with.

[BoulderDawg]

Rape is rape no matter where it occurs.

Personally I don't think the average women is going to learn enough martial arts to prevent the attack. Therefore I believe most of these self defense classes should be focused on escaping and getting away. Teach these women a few basic forms to allow them to escape....then run.

I think one of the worst things they tell women is to go for the groin. To be very effective she's going to have to hit the guy pretty accurately because if she doesn't the rape might just turn into murder.

[David Jamieson]

There really shouldn't be any difference in training a guy or a girl.
the method is the same.

mismatching you with someone is kind of a drag and yes, you don't learn much from someone who can't challenge you, be it a guy or a girl.

mixed classes of adults and kids is a bad idea as well especially if there is drills involved. waste of time for pretty much everyone involved.

anyway, rule of thumb is to try and spend time with others who challenge you.

having said that, perhaps you can try to provide her with the challenge, help her find her leaks, and how to patch em.

[The Willow Sword]

Originally posted by Travelsbyknight

Here's the truth, buddies.

MOST of the time women don't get raped by "some hell bent dude who attacks them in the back seat of their car."

well you misquoted me knight. reread it and quote correctly next time.


IN fact the truth about women being assaulted in the manner i wrote is VERY REAL. Knight is correct that the assault comes from someone that they know and knight is also correct that it happens in their house/apartment/dormroom. Of course sexual assaults DO occur outside the home and more often times than not will occur in an unfamiliar area such as a parkinglot.

but the issue is not where a woman is assaulted, the issue is training for the assault.
i dont mean to suggest that women shouldnt learn forms and such and not go through the same curriculum as the rest of the class. But i DO think that there should be exclusive classes for women to really train them to deal with the myriad of BS that they have to endure with respect to men.

Peace,TWS

[dainos]

the problem is that your going to soft on them too. if you feel like you can throw her and get a slurpee then come back. you should do just that. if its a style they teach the same way. its her fault that she choose that style. and this sounds like alot of it could be improved by sparring. everyone is diffrent. i am not a very strong guy. almost everone is stronger than i am includeing women i am almost taller then everyone too. so spar with her tell her mistakes and video tape her while its going on

then show her the tape and what she could have done better and etc.

so go harder on them. they willl figure the rest out on their own. if they take one punch then get outta there. its kung fu expect to get a little hurt

[atlas1212]

This whole thread is ticking me off because the "anti-women" vibe here is just wrong.

How selfish is this thread starter? You don't think when he started people though he was crappy? Well, they trained with him anyway. Have patience. Help others. If you don't get a lot out of it, fine. But remember, a lot of people don't get a lot out of training with you. The Kwoon is a family. Do you not like spending time with your kids because they can't read as good as you? Seriously, quit being so selfish.

Kung Fu will build a woman's strength, speed, explosiveness etc. Maybe on a scale of 1 to 10 a woman's power is 1 when she starts. Maybe for a particular woman it maxes out at 3. But 3 may make all the difference in the world for that one eye strike, shot to the nose or groing strike that will save her life. Her knowledge of vital point striking is increased. Her fear is conquered. Her awareness improved. Her health is improved. And her ability to avoid conflict is improved. It's not all about who is stronger.

I've been involved in the martial arts for nearly 20 years and I can learn from white belts, kids, women or anyone. There is always something to learn from EVERYONE if you just open your darn mind.

[dainos]

100%
nice post

if thease guys dont get that... they are scewed. when i read about the challaneging thingy im like.

hey i fight my sifus all the time. they dont get much benefit. but they know how to fight a guy who sucks and knows he sucks

[atlas1212]

Yup.

Some people don't see the big picture.

[crimsonghost]

Sometimes when I train women I find it is better to show them that power can be achieved by a woman. My Sifu is a very tall man and he will have me demonstrate technique on him for the women who come into class. He trained me one on one and never budged an inch. If my technique is not right, not enough force to move, unbalance, or bend him, he doesn't move.
I'll admit that this was very frustrating when I first started out, but I really apprecieted it.
When you train with her explain to her what she needs to do to gain more force and how to manipulate your weight and strength against you. This will in the end benefit you as well, for you will learn with her how to overcome a stronger opponent.
I do see that many women seem not to have the "killer instinct" or aggressiveness that most men do. But, also, I have noticed that when you empower them, and prove to them that power can be achieved even with their small frame a lion is released. When their confidence grows so will their force, power and speed, just like anyother student.

[BruceSteveRoy]

as for women having no upper body strength i have to say this woman i work with has an 8 year old daughter that is a gymnast and she can do 23 pull ups in a minute. she can climb the rope from floor to ceiling in a pike poistion only using her arms then back down to do push ups before repeating it. i think it really depends on the woman (or girl) in question. so i have been trying to get this co worker to sign her daughter up for kung fu for about 6 months. i don't think its going to happen

also there is an instructor at wongs chinese boxing association. i think she is related to sifu wong but i am not sure and from what i have seen of her she is very very good.

this is not to say i don't see your point i just think it might be a little much to make sweeping generalizations. i am sure that for every example of an exellent female MAist or athlete i give any one of you can give me an example of a bad one probably multiple examples. but i think that is true for guy MAists too.

[neilhytholt]

as for women having no upper body strength i have to say this woman i work with has an 8 year old daughter that is a gymnast and she can do 23 pull ups in a minute. she can climb the rope from floor to ceiling in a pike poistion only using her arms then back down to do push ups before repeating it. i think it really depends on the woman (or girl) in question. so i have been trying to get this co worker to sign her daughter up for kung fu for about 6 months. i don't think its going to happen

also there is an instructor at wongs chinese boxing association. i think she is related to sifu wong but i am not sure and from what i have seen of her she is very very good.

this is not to say i don't see your point i just think it might be a little much to make sweeping generalizations. i am sure that for every example of an exellent female MAist or athlete i give any one of you can give me an example of a bad one probably multiple examples. but i think that is true for guy MAists too.

You have to be non-politically correct and realistic. I'm sorry but to go to the women's jail. Go to the men's jail.

I ask you, if the men were to attack the women, which one has better upper body strength? Yes, it's not the women.

Of course, there are some women with developed upper bodies (female body builders), but they are the small minority and a lot of them had to use 'roids to get where they are.

[crimsonghost]

None of that matters.
Upper body strength is great for lifting, not crutial for defending yourself.
I don't even try to compete with men's strength, it is much easier to use it against them. Re-direction and forward force will give you all the strength you need to strike the neck, back of the head, nose, groin, knees, whatever.
Focus what power you have on a specific vital point will be effective enough.
Don't punch a strong man in the stomach,
chop his throat, or break the knee.
fight smart, not hard.

[neilhytholt]

None of that matters.
Upper body strength is great for lifting, not crutial for defending yourself.
I don't even try to compete with men's strength, it is much easier to use it against them. Re-direction and forward force will give you all the strength you need to strike the neck, back of the head, nose, groin, knees, whatever.
Focus what power you have on a specific vital point will be effective enough.
Don't punch a strong man in the stomach,
chop his throat, or break the knee.
fight smart, not hard.

IMHO even that won't work against guys, you have to use light weapons. But whatever.

In all my years of martial arts I only ever met 2 women who could fight as well and punch as well as the guys.

And that being said, even so, most trained MA guys would have a hard time fighting boxers, so the majority of women would have little chance.

[im_dabich]

I might be different but I am stronger then alot of the guys on my martial arts team.. Excuse my language, But I am a mean lil *****.. I dont bend, im not soft, or weak. I am hard core. I train right along the guys I am not treated any different then the guys are and nither is my daughter. If I was treated any different I would kick my sifu's ass my self.. So if there are lil prissy princess girl's in Kung-Fu then they might want to try tai chi or something girly.. Im not a prissy lil princess and I will not be treated like one. If someone is Man enough to hit me like a man then I am going to hit them even harder......

[neilhytholt]

I might be different but I am stronger then alot of the guys on my martial arts team.. Excuse my language, But I am a mean lil *****.. I dont bend, im not soft, or weak. I am hard core. I train right along the guys I am not treated any different then the guys are and nither is my daughter. If I was treated any different I would kick my sifu's ass my self.. So if there are lil prissy princess girl's in Kung-Fu then they might want to try tai chi or something girly.. Im not a prissy lil princess and I will not be treated like one. If someone is Man enough to hit me like a man then I am going to hit them even harder......

Yeah, I've met 2 women like you. Not to mess with. One was 6'3" and BUFF. The other one was 5'11 and worked her ass off and MEAN. But she was the best sensei ever. She kept correcting all my katas in places I didn't even know I was making mistakes.

But the majority of women aren't like that. Don't know how to make women like that. Don't think my daughter's going to be like that, because her mom sure isn't.