Has WWIII Begun?

[mantis108]

I saw a video called "Why We Fight". It does offer some sobering thoughts about the industrial military complex that is being set in motion by the Bush administration.

But really, this is more about the battle between the haves (western world and Isarel) and the have nots (palestinians, A***han, Iraq, etc..) BTW, the Palestinians believe that they were rob of their motherland. So does the Iraqis. Adding to the problem is warrior mentality reinforced by the Muslim faith. It's a very deadly combination. I have nothing against Islam and any reglion. It is just the way the reglious doctrain is about IMHO. Peace can only be achieve with equal footing and oneness in mind (hence, the infidel purging idea from some extreme quarters). We all know that's not going to happen.

For the have nots, it's a place between the hard floor and the rock. You fight you die; don't fight you also died. Why not die a "honor and glorious" death? Beside, you are going to see your dearest friend "Allah" So.. After that the world is not your problem anymore. It's selfish but it sounds rewarding for those who have not material wealth or intelligence. This is why one should never ever start anything with these people in the first place. Stay neutral, divide and conquer. Never meet them head on which is what the Bush administration has totally underestimate and misjudged the situation (faulty intelligence played a role as well). But then who put the Bush administration in the White House twice in a role in the first place?

It takes just a little anguish to start a war. It takes real courage to end it for good. Unfortunate, people without confidence act with emotions. Those are the one that are in power right now including Clark Kent wannabe, Steven H. in our Canadian elected officials (who said Canadian voters are smart?) So... Northern America is getting more and more right wing groupies playground.

I hope the Mars or Luna colonies will be ready in time for emigration. Oh wait, we might even up having Gundam wars....

Mantis108

[WinterPalm]

This is what happens when the world's countries are run by paranoid lunatics who figure that the best way to get along is to stockpile as many weapons as possible. Is North Korea insane because it spends all of its food money on its nuclear program? How about America, the only country to drop Nuclear weapons on a civilian area, because they spend in excess of 400 Billion a year on military?

Global politics are a joke. The people don't matter. Democracy doesn't matter. Health care doesn't matter. Civilization and peace certainly don't matter.
It's all about the powerful exerting their power and getting their way. They push each other, cheat each other, lie to and spy on each other, and then wait for someone to take it a step further...then the propaganda about our great socialist or democratic believes, or muslim-christain beliefs, and how these make us the righetous and correct ones...All the while the guilt is across the board and the wrongs have been done for years and years while people still try to play innocent.

The five superpowers of the security council have histories more recent than most would like to admit, that are rife with human rights and international law violations. It's no surprise that the small countries are jumping to these conclusions and going above international law.

And in the process of war and making violence, very little dialogue goes into why these people are doing what they do. Why do Americans support such extreme military spending and deployment? Why do young arabs decide to blow themselves up just to kill a couple of the enemy? Yes, in both cases the propaganda and religious nonsense fuels the fears/racism/hatred, but people just don't act this way without deeper reasoning.

I don't have hatred of anybody...and I hope that this is not the WW3. Something does need to be done to curb military spending/religious fanaticism/political power struggles/ and extreme devaluation of people and the fetish of commodities.

The fact of the matter is: those casting the stones are not those without sin. And regardless of which side you are on, democracy isn't all its cracked up to be in the modern capitalist sense. Lunatics like Hamas and George Bush get elected and put in power by the will of the people!

Where is the love?

[David Jamieson]

You're right...


They blow up abortion clinics and gay night clubs



Oh and there was that little Oklahoma City thing

you might remember that.



and Mas -

are you saying we are no better than Soviet Russia or Communist China? That our actions are of the same deplorable nature as theirs?

You must really hate America.

abortion clinics and gay nightclubs. ok, i agree, there are some Fundy Christians who have done deplorable acts such as you describe. But tell me this, how many of these incidents in comparison to the actions of radical Islam?

what's teh score on teh atrocities?

like a million to one? statistically speaking, almost negligable and thereby rendering your argument "made of straw".

also, the mcveigh thing was not fundamentalist christianity by a long shot. These were anti government people acting in a relatively small group or three or four people, possibly more and not involving thousands of willing accomplices.

Cherry picking in a field of apples doesn't yeild a lot of useful stuff.

Fundamentalist Islam deserves to be destroyed. Fundamentalist Christianity deserves to be ignored.

[KC Elbows]

You're right...


They blow up abortion clinics and gay night clubs



Oh and there was that little Oklahoma City thing

It's also worthy of note to point out that the KKK do not burn stars of davids or ankhs on people's lawn.

[emisosa]

but I think israel should beat the living crap out of it's detractors once and for all

I wonder what you might have thought in WWII with Germany.

Fundamentalist cHristians are just blabber mouths

Yes, one of them is called George W. Bush.
Just a blabber right? he's an angel.

Fundamentalist Christians aren't walking into train stations and blowing up innocent people

No, they only drop bombs and killed thousands of inocents calling it a war. What's the **** difference between Bush and Al Quaeda?
Bush has more resources and media control. who cares who started this things...

Thing is, you cannot compare Fundamentalism to goverments like Israel or the U.S. or UK. We are all humans who have the same problem. A group of people willing to destroy everyone who thinks differently, and still havent evolved enough to know that they are afraid to the unknown. A cultural clash is undergoing , and low IQ people tend to be afraid to the unknown. But, if you are to look into the greater good of mankind, 80% of the world can tell you who hurts them the most. Are they the terrorists? Is the biggest threat of the world Terrorism? Or the fact that nuclear wars can be wedge by a whole country?
Ignorance is the biggest threat. Fear to the unknown is the threat. And media control is the biggest threat.

[David Jamieson]

I wonder what you might have thought in WWII with Germany.


Yes, one of them is called George W. Bush.
Just a blabber right? he's an angel.



No, they only drop bombs and killed thousands of inocents calling it a war. What's the **** difference between Bush and Al Quaeda?
Bush has more resources and media control. who cares who started this things...

Thing is, you cannot compare Fundamentalism to goverments like Israel or the U.S. or UK. We are all humans who have the same problem. A group of people willing to destroy everyone who thinks differently, and still havent evolved enough to know that they are afraid to the unknown. A cultural clash is undergoing , and low IQ people tend to be afraid to the unknown. But, if you are to look into the greater good of mankind, 80% of the world can tell you who hurts them the most. Are they the terrorists? Is the biggest threat of the world Terrorism? Or the fact that nuclear wars can be wedge by a whole country?
Ignorance is the biggest threat. Fear to the unknown is the threat. And media control is the biggest threat.

Before you go further, I am going to say you display a surprising amount of ignorance on the subject.

Are you saying that the USA or the UK is a fundamentalist Christian Country? I'm telling you they're not.

Are you saying Bush is a fundamentalist Christian? Hogwash, i'll bet you a doghnut you can't even tell me what church he belongs to. Why? Because Bush is not a fundamentalist Christian and never has been. He see's evangelicals and fundamentalists as a portion of the voting population and he will exploit their beliefs to sell them his.

I also never said Bush was the sharpest knife in the drawer and in fact regard him as a less than desirable leader for teh US who needs to be thrown out of office pronto.

You really need to brush up on a few things. Start from the beginning and work your way forward through time and see iff you can manage to hang onto the hippy granola crap you're trying to sell with the why can't we be friends song.

Nonsense.

[lkfmdc]

What's the **** difference between Bush and Al Quaeda?

If you think Bush and Al Queda are equal, pretty much no point in continuing, you have NO credibility....

[Crushing Fist]

abortion clinics and gay nightclubs. ok, i agree, there are some Fundy Christians who have done deplorable acts such as you describe. But tell me this, how many of these incidents in comparison to the actions of radical Islam?

what's teh score on teh atrocities?

like a million to one? statistically speaking, almost negligable and thereby rendering your argument "made of straw".

also, the mcveigh thing was not fundamentalist christianity by a long shot. These were anti government people acting in a relatively small group or three or four people, possibly more and not involving thousands of willing accomplices.

Cherry picking in a field of apples doesn't yeild a lot of useful stuff.

Fundamentalist Islam deserves to be destroyed. Fundamentalist Christianity deserves to be ignored.

get it right, boy...

McVeigh said he was avenging Waco.

No Fundies there I guess

my arguement? you mean the one you just made up? talk about strawman.

I didn't make an argument. I stated a fact.

I pointed out that Xtian Fundies have in fact blown things up, and I made no comparison of quantity or importance to "Islamofashionistas". You said they don't blow up train stations and I agreed with you stating what they prefer to blow up.

sounds to me like you are arguing with yourself...

boy.



I forgot to mention the '96 Olympics bombing right here in the ATL. Shame on me.

What ever happened to that "Anthrax Terrorist" anyway?

must have fallen down the memory hole.





Master Killer -

don't forget pardoning all the convicted felons involved on his way out the door.

too bad we can't find anyone with that kind of vision, indeed.

whatever happened to all those presidentially pardoned convicted felons anyway?

Oh that's right! They are in the current Bush Administration... the administration with more convicted felons than all previous administrations combined.

[KC Elbows]

I lean towards an interpretation where Bush isn't really a fundamentalist christian, but recognize that he is probably not bright enough to understand christianity on a level deeper than a so-called fundamentalist's one, so my view is probably not accurate.

In any case, if he is a true fundamentalist, he's a priviledged psuedo-royal first and foremost, so we've got that going for us.

[Crushing Fist]

If you think Bush and Al Queda are equal, pretty much no point in continuing, you have NO credibility....

word up...




Bush has WAY more bombs


not even close to equal

[mantis108]

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, right? Is that Mr B and his entourage is all about? Common, the biggest evil is the fact that evil can convince you there is no evil. So, I wouldn't assume anyone is innocent or guilty until proven otherwise. There is no proof they didn't let one slip to set in motion the master plan but there are some evidences that they could easily have. So...

Mantis108

[WinterPalm]

One side has no weapons and no money, no food and no health care, no media control, and no future. They commit deplorable acts of violence via intimidation, suicide bombing, and sometimes through tribal warfare.

One side has a lot of weapons, consumes the most food via population density, has moderate health care across the board, controls the media tightly, and has a future in question due to protecting its control and influence. They commit deplorable acts of violence via intimidation, carpet bombing, and often through outright invasion and threat of WMD...which they have used several times before.

They both bring misconceptions, violence, hatred, and murder to the other. They lie to their followers and if they can, they convince their followers to do their bidding. George W. Bush does not seem to be an extremist, but he is definately a self-righetous man that comes from a country that believes it is always right.

These two groups could be America-Afghanistan...Israel-Palesteine...Russia-Chechnya...and countless others.

And yeah, Syriana summed it up pretty nicely...It's all about the lunatics at the top of the economic game calling the shots and every now and then convincing the public to either vote for them, or to join their holy war.
I hope for the sake of those personally involved, that as little death comes to theirs and who they love regardless of which path they've been misled onto.

[Eddie]

You really need to brush up on a few things. Start from the beginning and work your way forward through time and see iff you can manage to hang onto the hippy granola crap you're trying to sell with the why can't we be friends song.

Nonsense.

Was that really necessary DJ? The sarcasm and insults? you all have such double standards. We can discuss anything one here, and people will act civil enough, but you don’t dare say anything against Jews or against the USA. Because the previous writer doesn’t seem to agree with your political views (and perceptions), you simply dismiss and belittle them? Not very mature, don’t you think?

If you think Bush and Al Queda are equal, pretty much no point in continuing, you have NO credibility....

Same here. You really so insecure about your own beliefs that you think its necessary to insult and attack someone’s character just because he has a different view than you? “you have NO credibility....” without even really knowing who you are talking about? Arrogance and assertiveness is fine, but to what point?

There are people who suffer real losses over there. We tend to forget about the average human beings who are just trying to live their own lives, according to the way their own culture and customs dictates. Not all Palestinians are evil fundamentalist suicide bombers out to kill as many Americans or Jews as they can, and not all Americans and Jews are power hungry land thieves out to make a quick buck from someone else’s expense.

[emisosa]

ok, yes, you might be right. maybe i was assuming bush is a fundamentalist xstian without basis. But he's against abortion, against eutanacia, declares wars, etc, etc.. He sure acts like one... I don't care if he's on a church or if he's not.

I'm not trying to sell anything.. i just want people to think about things deeply than obviously already are... The hippy granola of the 70's would be great. It seems humans have made the same mistakes and learnt nothing from the 70s. The greatest minds came through in the 70s, people stood up and shouted against war. They took action and legends were assasinated: Martin L. King, Malcom X, John Lennon , and now, people treats war like a new action movie to watch with some popcorn.

I agree with you that the US and UK are not fundamentalists countries, but at least the US is run by someone who acts like one. And he was elected. TWICE!
I had the pleasure to meet some americans, and i think they are excellent people. (too bad the only ones i met were not republicans), but all in all, the onces i met are excellent. I even worked for a company there and my experience was great. I'd love to see more people in my country like them.
I used to think like this about americans in gral. until Bush got reelected. Now i know that at least 50% of them are idiots.
The "why can't we be friends thing", is just what i think is happening, and what we should all think about. While we are having this discussion from the comfort of our western homes, people is being killed, starves to death, or worst: exploited by already resourcefull countries, elected by us.
Talk is cheap and easy. The difference between terrorists and us is that we do nothing about our ideals. They are wrong and exagerated and act according to their social enviroment and religious belief, but at least they do something about it. I gotta give them that. you can't say they are cowards like you and i.

check out this (if you are to discuss Israel , you have to know this):
http://www.vanunu.org

[David Jamieson]

get it right, boy...

McVeigh said he was avenging Waco.

No Fundies there I guess

my arguement? you mean the one you just made up? talk about strawman.

I didn't make an argument. I stated a fact.

I pointed out that Xtian Fundies have in fact blown things up, and I made no comparison of quantity or importance to "Islamofashionistas". You said they don't blow up train stations and I agreed with you stating what they prefer to blow up.

sounds to me like you are arguing with yourself...

boy.



I forgot to mention the '96 Olympics bombing right here in the ATL. Shame on me.

What ever happened to that "Anthrax Terrorist" anyway?

must have fallen down the memory hole.





Master Killer -

don't forget pardoning all the convicted felons involved on his way out the door.

too bad we can't find anyone with that kind of vision, indeed.

whatever happened to all those presidentially pardoned convicted felons anyway?

Oh that's right! They are in the current Bush Administration... the administration with more convicted felons than all previous administrations combined.

boy...pffft. How about you get it right. McVeigh stated he wanted to wage war on the FBI and the ATF because their actions in WACO were anti american. He was not a fundamentalist Christian, nor was he a CoLDS member or a Branch Davidian sect member and as far as anyone knows, the church he went to as a kid in New York was a regular run of the mill church. In short Crushing Fists, you are wrong and are using twisted versions of facts to support your views, which I also regard as incorrect.

and again, I already said, yes, they have been involved in the murders of doctors, the destruction of abortion clinics and so on. But is this really an organized mission of fundamentalist christians? Do they recruit suicide bombers in churches? Do they do suicide bombings at all? And you have to recognize organized murder vs small groups of haywire idiots blowing up **** bombs on government property. No, boy, I'm sorry boy, your "facts": as you like to think of them are so skewed it is apparent to anyone but yourself.

Anyway, in times of war, you have to pick a side and you do this based upon which ideological position sits with you in a majority sense even if not completely.

I do not agree with the tenets or tennants of fundamentalist islam and believe that it is a very real and apparent danger to everyone on the planet.

They are completely unreasonable. They cannot be negotiated with as they've shown us clearly over some 50+ years of repeated killings.

Even Buddhism says it is necessary to destroy evil. If there ever was a more shining example of evil that needs destroying, it's fundamentalist islam.

I don't have a problem with any religion. I do have a problem with sectarian violence and believe that to solve a problem, you must go to the root and make the correction there. Ergo, the destruction of fundamentalist Islam is important. It doesn't mean the destruction of islam. Anymore than getting rid of falwell and his ilk would damage protestantism in the west.

get ya facts straight boy, before you start putting shoes in your mouth.

oh yeah, go Israel!