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Thread: Brief clip of Alan Jensen

  1. #31
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    Knifefighter,


    All you have to do is look at his Head!

    If someone with Strength in the street colides with him then the body will not be able to support or dynamically adjust.


    Yung Chun:

    Drills without a support system are a waste of time no matter how much "sensitivity" we think we get out of them.


    Just an opinion.


    Jim

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Roselando
    All you have to do is look at his Head!

    If someone with Strength in the street colides with him then the body will not be able to support or dynamically adjust.
    Jim-
    Can you elaborate on these comments? I'm not sure what you mean.

  3. #33
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    Knifefighter,


    His body alignment is so off that its very very Weak. He would have no choice but to use flailing speed to try to dominate which is like shooting fifty shots to hope for one or two to leak in. I am fond of an old Maxim for this sort of thing: The Mouse Steals The Cheese. The strong street fighter will not allow those smooth chi sao transitions to happen. They will lock up and the weak frame wont support.

    When he issues his strength is only 1 Force Vector of power backed up by maybe a bit more of the same. --> --> Someone with more wholesome whole body strength colides with him then the wholesome force will rock the one direction of force. Its like being hit with something coming straight with more straight backing it up or up/down/left/right/forward/backward or Moving Gyro English hitting.

    Just some thoughts.

    Peace,
    Jim

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Roselando
    His body alignment is so off that its very very Weak.
    I know I may be jumping the gun here and potentially moving into the flame part of the thread early but...

    Why would a top guy who has been training this stuff for decades do a demonstration where his body alignment is so weak?

  5. #35
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    Dale,


    Perhaps it all depends on what emphacis people put on their boxing or art. Maybe what he is doing works very well for him against the people he has trained with or against. Maybe our opinions are wrong. Just because someones art uses 2 force vectors versus 4 or 6 it doesn't mean they cant pull it off if with lots of training. For me, nothing is more important than good alive posture and healthy spine.

    When he demonstrates a pressing in "application hit" I can see he is loaded up to fire off his big power shot. This means he has to Re-Load to launch his next heaviest shot after he bases. So, if he starts the flailing chain attack he may throw his most powerful hit with the first, maybe the second of the chain attack will have less on it and the the third even less unless he Re-Loads. This is why I do not think the Chain attack is very practical. Max one or two shots with any beef and the rest will be un-cooperative body and hand linkage. Also, if he does land the first or second shot the guy will not be close enough to deliver 3,4,5 etc.. I think we sometimes confuse stamina practice with application.


    Gotta run man!


    Peace,
    Jim

  6. #36

    This has more to comment about....I think.

    WT vs. 'Kickboxing'


    any comments???
    Sapere aude, Justin.

    The map is not the Terrain.

    "Wheather you believe you can, or you believe you can't...You're right." - Henry Ford

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmanuJRY
    WT vs. 'Kickboxing'


    any comments???

    Yeah.....is that kickboxer ONG BAK, The Thai Warrior?????

    Wait....I think I saw some Tae Bo in there

  8. #38
    You guys are hopeless.

    I thought there was lots to comment on from that video... maybe I was wrong.

    Anyway, I'll go back and watch it and comment later.

    As far as the "kickboxer" vs. VT guy, was that karate point sparring?
    Last edited by Knifefighter; 07-26-2006 at 05:31 PM.

  9. #39
    OK… just watched it again.

    First of all, I think the guy can be excused for his head placement and lack of structural integrity. It looked to be a low key demo where he was relaxed and talking.

    As far as techniques, I saw a lot of stuff in there. Are you sure you guys train?

    I saw traps, tans, lops, paks, backfists and some other things that I remember learning in WC. As far as useful techniques for fighting, I didn’t see too much.

    I saw the usual weakness of only working the centerline and never throwing hook types of punches when there would be myriads of openings to do so in a real fight.

    I found the pushing stuff to be pretty unrealistic which is not uncommon to most WC demos that I’ve seen. One will be pretty hard pressed to push an engaged opponent away unless one is much bigger than said opponent.

    All in all, not much in terms of useful technique.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    I saw traps, tans, lops, paks, backfists and some other things that I remember learning in WC. As far as useful techniques for fighting, I didn’t see too much.

    I saw the usual weakness of only working the centerline and never throwing hook types of punches when there would be myriads of openings to do so in a real fight.

    I found the pushing stuff to be pretty unrealistic which is not uncommon to most WC demos that I’ve seen. One will be pretty hard pressed to push an engaged opponent away unless one is much bigger than said opponent.

    All in all, not much in terms of useful technique.
    Hence, the lack of comment.
    Sapere aude, Justin.

    The map is not the Terrain.

    "Wheather you believe you can, or you believe you can't...You're right." - Henry Ford

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    You guys are hopeless.

    I thought there was lots to comment on from that video... maybe I was wrong.

    Anyway, I'll go back and watch it and comment later.

    As far as the "kickboxer" vs. VT guy, was that karate point sparring?
    I'm not sure, it was just a couple clicks away from the other vid.

    I think they were just 'demonstrating' how devistating WC is against kickboxing.

    Sapere aude, Justin.

    The map is not the Terrain.

    "Wheather you believe you can, or you believe you can't...You're right." - Henry Ford

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    OK… just watched it again.

    First of all, I think the guy can be excused for his head placement and lack of structural integrity. It looked to be a low key demo where he was relaxed and talking.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    As far as techniques, I saw a lot of stuff in there. Are you sure you guys train?
    LOL. We saw it too but what you consider a lot is not really much at all from a WC perspective - It's a bit too bread and butter WC to have that much to say about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    I saw traps, tans, lops, paks, backfists and some other things that I remember learning in WC. As far as useful techniques for fighting, I didn’t see too much.

    I saw the usual weakness of only working the centerline and never throwing hook types of punches when there would be myriads of openings to do so in a real fight.
    Well maybe they throw hooks at a later stage or whatever.
    I think there's nothing wrong with putting that as a drill too.
    It's not like it's a alien concept.

    Don't think I saw a backfist or much trapping. There was *potential* positions for trapping but it was more that the demo target really just didn't bring his hand out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    I found the pushing stuff to be pretty unrealistic which is not uncommon to most WC demos that I’ve seen. One will be pretty hard pressed to push an engaged opponent away unless one is much bigger than said opponent.

    All in all, not much in terms of useful technique.
    Isn't that what a few other guys said.....

    The "pushing" I think you are referring to, possibly was some sort of foot sweeping drill.

    Really, the techniques of WC are very simple and few. Punching, elbowing, a few different hand fighting techniques like pak, tan, lop etc. a few simple kicks. Some lineages use knee strikes.

    A lot of the drills are abstractions that a lay person is not going to see much practicality out of. The drills are MORE complicated than the application. It's the WC way of supposedly training smarter.

  13. #43
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    When's the flame war already ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifefighter
    As far as techniques, I saw a lot of stuff in there. Are you sure you guys train?

    I saw traps, tans, lops, paks, backfists and some other things that I remember learning in WC. As far as useful techniques for fighting, I didn’t see too much.

    I saw the usual weakness of only working the centerline and never throwing hook types of punches when there would be myriads of openings to do so in a real fight.
    I saw these things also but i thought his stance was was to static.
    To Much Chi Sao makes VT peeps straight shooters, we think about the centerline too much. And plant our feet to our detriment.

    To me the centerline- its the shortest distance between you and me, wether im front on or side on wether you face me or have ur back to me. Its not about just attacking the opponents front / chest, which a lot seem to do.

    Good to see someone using Pak Sao right at the start of the vid there but it was 90 arms. Not much turning at the waist at all.
    If you look closely after the parry when he follows up he has to go over the opponents hands - and he stands up, So his punch looses force.

    We get stuck going for the head, why not the body ?
    I agree with the hook call by KF, but as a VT man my 'Hook' is more a bannana punch with my elbow still inside - ish - simlar to the ginger punch from BJ.

    We have uppercuts also - from CK - but they for the most part were relaxed point sparring, not getting inside to crowd and catch the body where you would launch such a punch.

    The same goes for the kicking - wheres the body power - more harrasing than damaging. Kinda pushed rather than snapped, bad cam angle though, i could be wrong.
    You could call the wing arm he gave when a side kick came a Bong Sao but it deflected the kick up almost in his face. He would have been more secure with the body behind him moving.

    Id like to see more movement from his legs, it would liven up his game.

    Im not perfect - but i recognise a few things im trying to work on myself.
    Training is the pursuit of perfection - Fighting is settling for results - ME

    Thats not VT

    "This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to"- TOOL

    "I think the discussion is not really developing how I thought it would " - LoneTiger108

    Its good to be the King - http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=2vqmgJIJM98

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Roselando
    Yung Chun:

    Drills without a support system are a waste of time no matter how much "sensitivity" we think we get out of them.


    Just an opinion.


    Not sure I know what you mean either Jim.. I don't recall advocating anywhere to drill without a "support system."
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

  15. #45
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    Yong Chun,


    I was under the impression that you approved of the training becauses of your post:

    This stuff is about developing attributes like:

    Contact Reflexes

    Meaning a sensitivity to various conditions that can and will exist when fighters "clash", meaning forceful contact with the arms, legs and body happens, something that happens often enough in real fighting—forceful contact.

    Awareness to position and range

    Conditions that WCK trains to be sensitive to relate to body and bridge position and energy. This translates into how, as it applies to energy/force, the opponent's resistance manifests <how he leaves the line> and how to use this resistance depending on what position you find yourself in to gain an advantage in order to apply an effective attack.

    Why Sensitivity Training?

    etc etc etc.


    Gotta run!


    Peace,
    Jim
    Jim

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