Brief clip of Alan Jensen

[Liddel]

Am I confused or did Liddell mistake this Jensen clip for some form of sparring?
This board gets more surreal every year.
Andrew

Yes you are confused. Im in no doubt, its NOT sparring.
I made comments with regard to sparring, but i wasnt saying this is sparring.

The confusion has come from the topic changing. Originally the clip was introduced with a question of 'fighting realism' even though its not fighting itself.

I gave my opinion to serve as one POV on the question.
Its that simple.

[AmanuJRY]

Attributes? What are attributes? I presume you're talking about physical characteristics- absolute strength, speed-strength, strength-endurance, speed-strength-endurance, strength-speed, VO2max, flexibility, mobility, lactic acid tolerance, etc. These are a conditioning base-GPP, built on motions usually fairly far from the sport involved (i.e. squatting for your golf game)- which must be transformed into usable qualities, the process of doing SPP (specific physical preparedness- working on a power swing with your newly strong posterior chain, possibly with off-weight implements, under some training constraint like a timed rep, continuing the golf analogy), then brought into your actual 'game'.

I'm talking about not just transforming S&C work into the 'fuel' for a technique, but the little technical subtleties that come out as you constantly work on a skill, subtleties that sometimes make all the difference in making something work better. I will note that I make more of these 'breakthroughs' when I bring up lagging areas in my S&C program or introduce a new crosstraining approach(implying that I'm doing SPP to build on my GPP base), but these developments aren't always the expected ones; often messing around w/ a 'basic', I'll find that something I didn't expect to develop has, because I've fixed a physical problem or improved some motor pattern (for example, my triangle got a lot better when I was doing a lot of overhead squats- because I got the strength in that ROM to allow me the flexibility to better execute).

What I mean by working on basics is a constant attempt to refine the most fundamental portions of your motion and strategy- that involves the above, but also involves a constant examination, testing, and experimentation with those fundamentals. Having been doing that for a while now, and having had some fairly profound changes in my perceptions of fairly simple actions over the years, I think that perceiving yourself as 'understanding' a technique limits your ability to refine, develop, and challenge that understanding, working towards getting an even better understanding.

Basics are merely a bridge between intent and mastery (which, by definition is an ideal, not an attainable state) - with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche.

Andrew

What about attributes like timing and tactile sensitivity? I don't see how their development is that far removed from the actual activity.

I think the difference of opinion lies in how we interpet 'basics'. Are we talking punches and kicks? Body structure? Theory? All of the above?

I'm definately not suggesting that one reaches a point in which one 'understands' a tech such that they need not train it, not in the sleightest. I'm suggesting that there are aspects that commit themselves to memory regardless of how much or little is trained ( i.e. I could not train for ten years and still remember centerline theory or the mechanics of a punch) and others, like muscle memory, that degrade at varying rates ( i.e. I may remeber the mechanics of a punch, but can I execute it)

[AndrewS]

Justin writes:

What about attributes like timing and tactile sensitivity? I don't see how their development is that far removed from the actual activity.

I wouldn't qualify these as attributes- to me, attributes are measurable physical characteristics not entirely specific to the individual sport/activity in question. Timing is clearly a sport specific skill, a basic, while tactile sensitivity is probably better termed 'relational kinesthetic awareness' and while there is clearly some carryover between different forums in which this is developed (ever taught a dancer or gymnast a martial art- it's annoying watching people catch on that quickly sometimes), it's activity specific in a martial context, and as such would be a 'basic'- SPP, not an attribute (GPP, conditioning base).

I think the difference of opinion lies in how we interpet 'basics'. Are we talking punches and kicks? Body structure? Theory? All of the above?

There's a definite difference here. Theory is not a basic; it's a cognitive model, the usefulness of which is limited to the results it produces. Theory is mouthboxing.

To me, 'basics' would be SPP- training of skills specific to your chosen activity. Using the OODA loop model
Observe- the ability to read your opponent's balance and intent, and your awareness of your own balance and intent
Orient- kinesthetic and spacial awareness of your relation to each other (tactile sensitivity, kuzushi, feeling what to play for when you pummel or play for grip based on both your motion and the other person's)
Decide- a limited response set based on re-evaluation of the situation (i.e. guy's going back looking rocked, smash in with strikes as in the drill on the SF thread, or pick a double, or whatever- have a limited response set of
Action- whatever you decide to do, 'techniques'- which may be developed by smoothing out motion (i.e. training technique), or improving strength, power, etc. with that technique (which is easier if you have more strength and power- GPP- if you can jerk 200kg, you'll have an easier time doubling your punching power than if you can only jerk 50kg).

That's just the start on a complex subject.

GPP- my physical condition- is constantly changing (and hopefully improving) state. As such, when I go back to work on 'basics', I often get rewarded with new and interesting insights and skills- i.e. I improved my hip mobility, stretched out my hip flexors, messed with some new chi gherk sections and discovered that I could finally turn my round kicks over, something which had given me immense hip pain for years.

FWIW,

Andrew

[AmanuJRY]

In that context, then, I don't disagree with you in the slieghtest.