How Many People on this forum train at a McDojo

[monkeyfoot]

I train in england at a school that sees new people come and go, but then also sees a set group of us who have stayed and train hard.

it dont matter what others do, its how ou train yourself.

3 examples of training being used within our class

1)
A member in our school was set upon by 3 men and they were intent on giving him a beating. He defended himself against all 3 of them. When he was fighting the last guy, a policeman caught sight of the confrontation, pulled out his baton and went to hit him. The guy from our school instinctively disarmed the copper, and was then rushed and maced to the floor. He got charged with assulting a police officer and is in jail.

2)
a member of our school was in a club. A group of guys were reknowned for 'group fighting' and targeted him. He knew that even though one was starting on him that all would jump in, so he shot a finger strike right i the guys eye. The rest didnt even bother.

3)
my training bud kurt got squared up to by someone much bigger than him, so he didnt hesitate and shot a finger strike to the eyes and heel palmed to the chin. Knocked the guy out clean.

We have 1nce a weekers......but dont ever let that taint the sifu and his serious students.

craig

[The Xia]

Aren't people sick of talking about mcdojos yet? Why waste so much time talking about which schools can be called mcdojos, and which schools are 'hard core'... Everyone should stop worrying about this crap, and just go to the school that they like (for cost, for instruction style, for style, for atmostphere etc.). Don't worry about what made up word that others call it... Its all these threads that make me think that being on MA forums is a completely useless experience and just a waste of time that I could be using to train. Thats what I think.

It is a major topic in martial arts. If this isn't the place to talk about it, then where is?

[Crushing Fist]

It is a major topic in martial arts. If this isn't the place to talk about it, then where is?

www.bullshido.com

[The Xia]

Bullshido.net is a great site. It has exposed many frauds. That still doesn't mean we can't discuss Bullshido and McDojos here, with our TCMA perspectives.

Besides, after the string of "Women suck" threads, McDojo talk should be welcome!

[Knifefighter]

My point is that if an average athlete can beat up the head instructor at your school, maybe you shouldnt train there.

How do you know that couldn't happen at your school?

[Ou Ji]

2)
a member of our school was in a club. A group of guys were reknowned for 'group fighting' and targeted him. He knew that even though one was starting on him that all would jump in, so he shot a finger strike right i the guys eye. The rest didnt even bother.

3)
my training bud kurt got squared up to by someone much bigger than him, so he didnt hesitate and shot a finger strike to the eyes and heel palmed to the chin. Knocked the guy out clean.

Gee, according to the MMA types around here the eye gouge doesn't work because it's much too difficult to hit a small moving target.

So you must be, like, lying or something.

[PlumDragon]

The way I see it:

People who are not so much into martial arts but attend classes in their area will not seek out forums to waste time on while they are at work. These are the people who dont care if they train at a McDojo or not.

People who ARE in to their martial arts in a big way will be more prone to seek out forums to waste time on while they are at work. These are the people who DO care if they train at a McDojo; they want something better.

If the above statements are accurate, even just partially, then one can only conclude, based on formal logic, that proportionally, there are a smaller percentage of people here that train in a McDojo than the percentage of schools that make up McDojos....

QED.

[Cleveland]

Some people just take martial arts to stay in shape, so who cares where they train! If you are looking for real defense techniques taught in schools, look for one that stresses eye gouges, throat and groin strikes. My sifu trains us hard and says if a fight takes longer than 15 seconds, you are taking to long. Also, any school that claims you can learn faster or become a blackbelt in 18 months, that is a probably not a good school. And MMA fighters can't use eye gouges, so they think they are not effective. You can gouge BOTH EYES with a raking tiger claw rather easily!

[Oso]

oh my.........

[Dragon Warrior]

Some people just take martial arts to stay in shape, so who cares where they train! If you are looking for real defense techniques taught in schools, look for one that stresses eye gouges, throat and groin strikes. My sifu trains us hard and says if a fight takes longer than 15 seconds, you are taking to long. Also, any school that claims you can learn faster or become a blackbelt in 18 months, that is a probably not a good school. And MMA fighters can't use eye gouges, so they think they are not effective. You can gouge BOTH EYES with a raking tiger claw rather easily!

First of all, yeah in the street you can eye-gouge, but why does that make mma uneffective? An mma fighter can eye-gouge you as easily as you can eye-gouge him, also, he will have an easier time eye-gouging you when he has you mounted and is controlling you . Not to mention the fact that he can drop down elbows punches and pull of numberous submissions.

Also, there have been times where i have been poked in the eye and still kept fighting. Once I scratched my cornia during training and still finished the fight and then went to the hospital after.

I would not spend anytime on practicing eye-gouging, also I dont need a teacher to teach me how to hurt somebody by poking or scratching their eye.

Also, in my opinion, if the only techniques you are learning are eye-gouges, throat and groin strikes, you may be at a McDojo, and should consider checking out other schools.

[Dragon Warrior]

How do you know that couldn't happen at your school?

Well anything can happen.

I dont want to sound coocky, but i have put a lot of time into sparring for the past 13 years (minus this year), and I have been grappling with quality training partners almost everyday for the past 4 years. My game is pretty tight, I am confident in all ranges of fighting. If I can't beat someone standing up, then I will go for a takedown, If I get taken down then I am confident on my back.

I also train with college wrestlers (one all-american), not to mention a wide variety of athletes.

Also, anyone who walks into my school off the street is going to make the same mistakes that every beginner makes. Trust me, I will capitalize on them.

[BlueTravesty]

My point is that if an average athlete can beat up the head instructor at your school, maybe you shouldnt train there.

I know that a lot of people on this forum train hard and are tough.

But if 90% of schools out there are McDojos, then why shouldnt I assume that 90% of the people on this forum dont train at one of them.

There are some whose definition of McDojo could be any of the following.

1) Any school that doesn't teach ground-grappling (BJJ/Sambo/whatever.)
This one CAN be valid to a certain point, since ground grappling has made a difference in the way we fight today, and would come in handy in your propsed football-player scenario should the elbow to the head, the kick to the knee or punch to the throat fail to bring said football player down (it's never safe to assume ANY technique is a "fight-stopper.") Leverage and position would indeed be handy for any encounter. I personally believe that if you want to mix martial arts, you should do just that. Learn your striking and grappling from people that specialize in those fields, rather than one-stop shopping for them. I myself do not believe this constitutes a McDojo.

2) Any school that teaches anything besides enitrely dependable, reliable, non-BS responses to physical threats. If that's the case, police academies, the Armed Forces, shooting ranges, and firearms classes are the only valid martial arts schools anywhere. While other systems (karate, CMA, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, Sambo, BJJ, whatever) teach "unreliable" things like striking and grappling (which sometimes *gasp* fail [like anything else in the world]) these schools teach the only non-BS technique in the modern MA repetoire- the gunshot to the head.

If those are YOUR definitions of a McDojo, then perhaps you are correct; 90% of us aren't learning ground grappling, or the point-blank shot to the face. However, I think the "Belt Factories with no quality control and lacksadaisical training" definition is the more correct one. We train pretty hard where I'm learning (I for one, am usually dripping with sweat at the end of every class, so it's GOTTA be doing something), and I don't feel the fact that we learn weapons, forms, and high kicks mixed in with our self-defense in any way compromises the quality of instruction. It just means I train to have fun, even if it means I don't become a good fighter as fast as the average MMA-ist.

[Cleveland]

First of all, yeah in the street you can eye-gouge, but why does that make mma uneffective? An mma fighter can eye-gouge you as easily as you can eye-gouge him, also, he will have an easier time eye-gouging you when he has you mounted and is controlling you . Not to mention the fact that he can drop down elbows punches and pull of numberous submissions.

Also, there have been times where i have been poked in the eye and still kept fighting. Once I scratched my cornia during training and still finished the fight and then went to the hospital after.

I would not spend anytime on practicing eye-gouging, also I dont need a teacher to teach me how to hurt somebody by poking or scratching their eye.

Also, in my opinion, if the only techniques you are learning are eye-gouges, throat and groin strikes, you may be at a McDojo, and should consider checking out other schools.

Who said that those are the only techniques my sifu teaches? Do you read? I never said MMA was ineffective! To clarify for you, I should of said that many MMA fighters who compete do not practice eye gouges, because they cannot use them in competition. And after your experience, you went to the hospital? During many MMA competitions, they stop the fight when someone is poked in the eye, they don't in a street fight! I was just trying to say that eye gouges can be effective in self defense. I don't know how we got into controlling and submissions. That is great for competition, but if you were attacked by multiple people, you will lose trying to mount someone! As for your experience, you were poked in the eye and kept fighting. How many times did you get punched in the fight? That was probably less painful and less effective if eyepokes sent you
to the hospital!
Also, I don't think name dropping matters, but my sifu is a 4th degree black sash, certified 3 times at the Shaolin temples, including Wudang Mountain. He is also a 3rd degree blackbelt in Shorin-Ryu. We train for self defense, not competition. There is a difference. Groin kicks, throat strikes and eye gouges are very effective in street fights. How many have you taken in your MMA career?

[Cleveland]

Ooh ... certified at the Shaolin Temples and Wudang Mountain. You probably shouldn't have said that, because that drops the credibility to about zero.

Wait ... I'm not saying anything about martial arts anymore. So let's rephrase that into questions.

"Your sifu was certified at the Shaolin Temple and Wudang Mountain? Do you realize how commercial Chinese martial arts are now and removed from any actual fighting applications except for sanshou and sanda? Do you think telling us this increases the credibility of your statements?"

No, but if I had to choose between the knowledge of someone who has trained for over 21 years and people on this forum who are experts on what everybody else is doing, than I'll take my chances with my sifu. I was just trying to clarify that my sifu has enough experience in martial arts and I don't train at a mcdojo, whatever that is. I also seem to realize this forum is filled with judgemental people who shoot down others credentials. No teacher, sifu, or whatever is good enough to teach according to some of the people on his forum. What is everyone's xperience and credentials that makes them experts? We all have to learn somewhere! My sifu is well respected in the area and does not run a large commercial school. He also teaches many police departments. He is good enough to train effective self defense to a ton of people, except those here. So I don't realy care what anyone else thinks, because I didn't ask for anyone else's opinion on credentials. I don't need to verify anything.

[neilhytholt]

No, but if I had to choose between the knowledge of someone who has trained for over 21 years and people on this forum who are experts on what everybody else is doing, than I'll take my chances with my sifu. I was just trying to clarify that my sifu has enough experience in martial arts and I don't train at a mcdojo, whatever that is. I also seem to realize this forum is filled with judgemental people who shoot down others credentials. No teacher, sifu, or whatever is good enough to teach according to some of the people on his forum. What is everyone's xperience and credentials that makes them experts? We all have to learn somewhere! My sifu is well respected in the area and does not run a large commercial school. He also teaches many police departments. He is good enough to train effective self defense to a ton of people, except those here. So I don't realy care what anyone else thinks, because I didn't ask for anyone else's opinion on credentials. I don't need to verify anything.

And I was going to be nice and remove that.

So now I won't hold back.

The Shaolin Temples and Wudang are totally commercialized now. They don't care at all how good you are (which by the way is just doing forms and no practical applications of forms anyway), but rather that you pay them money.

Anyway credentials aren't worth anything. What matters if the teacher can dump you on your ass or knock you out.

Anything else is just a piece of paper you can print out on your laser printer.