Involved in arrest this morning.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I had to go to a construction site in a really f'ed up part of town this morning. Everything went fine and I was walking back to me car parked on the opposite side of a large open lot adjacent to the site.

As I near my car I hear someone say "GET THE HELL AWAY FROM ME!" and I see a woman and 2 seedy looking guys. I didn't even think. I just ran over to her and saw that these guys were crackhead/druggie types and she was terrified. One of them immediately began to curse me and tell me to go away and the other started to walk away a bit. I was hoping that just my presence was going to make them leave. but the mouthy guy tried to grab at the woman's purse. I grabbed his jacket (only crackheads wear jackets in the summer right?) and threw a right cross and hit him on the chin. He is staggered and I push him down and go to knee on chest, except that it was actually knee on throat and he begins to gurgle and choke and spit and for the first time since this entire incident began I thought "What the **** do I do?"

I saw the lady grab her cellphone and I yelled "call the police!" and she screamed back "I am!" and I just realized that the other guy was still standing there! He kept asking me to get off his "friend" and told me that I was hurting him. (I god**** hope so..)

A police cruiser came in about 5 minutes (maybe faster?) and when he approached I let the guy up. He immediately went into the worst acting job I've ever seen! "Officer, This man just beat me up for no reason! We were just asking this lady for change and this guy runs across the street and tries to KILL me!"

The officer actually knew these 2 bums as local crackheads and he knew right away what was happening. The woman was in her 50's and is a seceratary for a small office. She had seen these guys hanging around in the area before thought they never had approached her before. Either they were desperate or they picked her as an easy target.

Officer commended me on trying to help her, but reprimanded me on taking action (WTF?) and I gave a statement and a hug from the lady. (Evelynn)

guys took a ride in the car for attemted robbery.

Next time I go to that neighborhood I'm bringing a gun!

*awaits KFO to flame me for God knows what..*

[neilhytholt]

Yeah it's pretty stupid to go hitting somebody when he's not doing anything more than hassling somebody non-physically.

You might want to work on your verbal assault skills and learn some standup grappling.

[syn]

I kind of feel sorry for those guys. Yeah I would of attempted to verbally talk them down, but hey it oculd of gotten alot worse and better to be an activist than pacifist (in most situations that is).

[WinterPalm]

This is one of the things we train for. I participated in an arrest with a violent individual awhile back while on security duty. Except this involved the application of an arm lock, a takedown/tackle by an onduty manager, and the subsequent wrist/elbow/shoulder lock behind the back that I applied. The whole time he was struggling and yelling that we were assaulting him...meanwhile he had just robbed the store and had prior charges.
He was the same type as your guy shaolin tiger...it is unfortunate but the neighborhood I work in is the worst neighborhood in my city and practically everybody is a degenerate/drugaddict/pimp/prostitute/etc.

Obviously in those situations we do what we are train to do. Could you have applied a standing arm bar with the takedown instead of punching? Or was that necessary based on the aggression and perceived threat? I would never apply too much force in a situation like that, but who gives a crap about the person trying to harm innocent people...let them get hurt!

Good job!

[Royal Dragon]

Knee On throat ehy.....Didn't notice he was still standing there? Good God man, ur dam lucky you weren't knifed, but good, for that foolish move.

[The Xia]

That was a risky thing you did Shaolin Tiger. Assuming that coats in summer means crackhead can prove fatal. Jackets can hide everything from knives to pistols and more. If they were wearing long coats they could have even had shotguns. You are also lucky that your assumption about crack proved correct, they could have been high on worse stuff, stuff that'd make em more dangerous in a fight. Also, you had luck in that the second guy didn't attack you. You walked into something that could have proven fatal.

But hey, you saved an innocent person from theft and possible bodily harm.

Still, you should recognize the danger of such situations.

[Royal Dragon]

If he was to intervne at all, the best thing to do is hose them down with pepper spray and call the cops. forget the movie hero stuff, it's tooo dangerous.

[KC Elbows]

Nice job.

On the flip side, involving the police also involves your name in paperwork, which is why gangs have an easy time killing witnesses, but those were just crackheads.

I've had crackheads try to steal gear from sites back when I worked in bad areas. I also had a framer's hammer and a prybar on my belt, possibly off of it when I'd confront them. Crackheads aren't gonna call the police on you for brandishing a weapon, and you really should have one in those circumstances, but, given that you didn't have one, and that there's no telling what would have happened to her, good job.

EDIT: and yeah, what The Xia said, it's really dangerous all things considered.

[Royal Dragon]

Allways carry peperspray.......it's best, and one of the most tourturous weapons avaliable, AND the very fact that you have to use it makes your attacker look more guilty in the eyes of the law.

[The Willow Sword]

You did the right thing. Don't sweat the rest of these guys telling you that you could have done something less aggressive blah blah blah

If you had not been there and not acted like you did that woman would have been robbed beaten and worse yet, killed for what little money she probably had in her purse. I have no sympathy for low life turds who were, as they claimed, "askin the lady for some change." that is total BS anyway. The cop had to reprimand you because technically you assaulted that guy ,HOWEVER, had the crackhead decided to take you to court (yeah right) it would have gone in YOUR favor and it would have been ruled justified use of force in defense of that lady(or however the lawyers want to word it).

You just dont THINK about the "LAW" in situations like that, or in any confrontation where your life or someone elses life is in peril. The Law only comes in to play after everything is said and done and that is how it should be. You hesitate and you get hurt real bad or worse yet, YOU get Killed.

SO kudos to you for helping that woman ST.

TWS

[neilhytholt]

You obviously must have never lived in any major city to think that ST did the correct thing.

Assaulting a homeless person is NOT the correct thing. If they're giving some woman a hard time (and they were not assaulting her, just messing with her verbally and grabbing at her purse), then you should go over and YELL at them, tell them to back off.

But what ST did was go up to the guy and start beating on him.

Basically what ST did was wrong in the eyes of the law and could land him in jail. In addition, if this occurrence really did happen, he blabbed about it on a public forum, which could be used in evidence in court of his wrong doing.

Not saying I don't morally support what he did. IMHO those guys should have been beaten up. But legally you cannot use that kind of force if they're just hassling somebody. That's called being a vigilante and is frowned on in the eyes of the law.

[KC Elbows]

TWS,

The cop reprimanded him because people DIE doing that stuff. Don't fool yourself. It's very dangerous, and you're not gonna find many people suggesting that unarmed is the smart way to go into that kind of situation. Since the assumption is that stoo posted this to spark debate, I don't see the point in rolling your eyes at exactly that.

RD is probably right about the mace. It's harder to explain a pry bar to the head than a macing.

[KC Elbows]

You obviously must have never lived in any major city to think that ST did the correct thing.

Assaulting a homeless person is NOT the correct thing. If they're giving some woman a hard time (and they were not assaulting her, just messing with her verbally and grabbing at her purse), then you should go over and YELL at them, tell them to back off.

But what ST did was go up to the guy and start beating on him.

Basically what ST did was wrong in the eyes of the law and could land him in jail. In addition, if this occurrence really did happen, he blabbed about it on a public forum, which could be used in evidence in court of his wrong doing.

Not saying I don't morally support what he did. IMHO those guys should have been beaten up. But legally you cannot use that kind of force if they're just hassling somebody. That's called being a vigilante and is frowned on in the eyes of the law.

Grabbing her purse is against the law. They began a robbery, that's what they were ARRESTED for. At that point, it is not vigilanteism at all, legally or otherwise. Unwise? Yes. But not illegal, the guy had already begun a robbery.

Of course, knowing that would require you to actually read the first post.

[neilhytholt]

Grabbing her purse is against the law. They began a robbery, that's what they were ARRESTED for. At that point, it is not vigilanteism at all, legally or otherwise. Unwise? Yes. But not illegal, the guy had already begun a robbery.

Of course, knowing that would require you to actually read the first post.

Beating up crooks if you're not a cop can get you sued or put in jail. Believe me, and I've had plenty of experience with law enforcement, ST is extremely lucky not to be in jail right now.

[The Willow Sword]

the "LAW" is not designed to "protect" the individual. the "Law" is designed to protect the written word of the law. sounds funny doesnt it? its true.

ST wasnt being a vigilante, he was being a good samaratin and a protector. You rationalize what he did as vigilante behavior. i rationalize it differently.

Its not so much that you can just tell someone that they are doing wrong in situations like that and they listen and realize the error of their ways. sometimes you have to hit them over the head with a sledge hammer, then you will notice that you have their strict attention.
The "LAWS" give the criminals and low lifes of this world more rights than the victims, that is why the criminal justice system is the most screwed up faction of law that has ever been concieved. we hear about the stories time and time again, yet we can sit back in our apathy and say " well what HE did was against the law and he could have been put in jail" well i say FUK THAT!! he saved that woman from being robbed and beaten, PERIOD.

TWS