Involved in arrest this morning.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

shaolintiger,

As a police officer, here's my take: ........

royal dragon .. you should take notes here.

dragon has reiterated much of what you've been saying, but since he wasn't being intentionally abrasive people might actually take it into consideration.

you had some good points ... but as soon as you put people on the defencive they could care less.

i'm sure youre aware of this but i thought id mention it anyway.

[Judge Pen]

Good job ST. Things could always go different, but no one knows how they will react until they are confronted. I'm glad that you and the lady were not hurt and you have my respect for acting under the circumstances. I'm not one to judge how you "should" have done it because I wasn't there. Chances are that many of the critics here would have run away and let that woman get mugged.

[David Jamieson]

I wouldn't always say the police have the best advice on the matter.

they have a couple of advantages.

1. they have the image of authority which gives a person second thought

2.should the person not give a flying donut about the authourity image, they will resort to overwhelming force.


if a cop isn't there, and you stop a situation, you have acted correctly.

[neilhytholt]

royal dragon .. you should take notes here.

dragon has reiterated much of what you've been saying, but since he wasn't being intentionally abrasive people might actually take it into consideration.

you had some good points ... but as soon as you put people on the defencive they could care less.

i'm sure youre aware of this but i thought id mention it anyway.

You are just taking it as being non-abrasive because it starts out with as a cop ... after a little while posting on this forum one thing really stands out:

What you guys think the person is about is more important than what the person actually says.

[KC Elbows]

Good job ST. Things could always go different, but no one knows how they will react until they are confronted. I'm glad that you and the lady were not hurt and you have my respect for acting under the circumstances. I'm not one to judge how you "should" have done it because I wasn't there. Chances are that many of the critics here would have run away and let that woman get mugged.

Do you really believe that most people would allow that situation to go that way without doing anything? I mean, crime usually is hidden away, the reason why is because people like some order.

Additionally, if this thread isn't a "pat me on the back" kind of thing, which it didn't come off as being, then discussion is perfectly fair, which really boils down to methods for dealing with the situation.

Boiling it down to bravery in every post is pretty useless, people have suggested not doing things like this unarmed, which is a good idea, the point that calling police after the fact is a bad idea, etc. These are things we can take away from the discussion, but if discussion is dissuaded, then if we came to this thread knowing no better, then we could do no better.

I mean, is this supposed to be a thread about how cool ST00 is? Or about that kind of situation and approaches to it?

I agree with gda, the basic ideas are good, just lost behind another argument, but the solution to that argument isn't to dissuade criticism, it's a discussion forum, criticism is a given, and a healthy amount of it is good.

ST00 has not once on this thread given anyone here the impression that he expects his approach to be seen as perfect, and seems far more receptive to this criticism than those defending him, taking it for what it's worth, point by point. Everything else is personality issues that he hasn't played in to.

Does he need the rest of us declaring him hero? I already stated that I didn't think that was his intent, the act was its own reward.

Which leaves approaching the topic, the way to handle similar issues, and arguments regarding that. But, if we're gonna paint doing that as "the act of those who have no heroism," then the thread is pointless.

It's NOT either "his mma didn't prepare him" or "these cowards wouldn't have done it", which are both equally meaningless in regards to the original post, and both based on so much vapor. The one is merely a predeliction for one style over the other; the other approach is intellectually equivalent to saying "you never know who will come through, but you won't because..." when the market for doing the right thing when the s hits the fan is hardly cornered by reasonable people, or even all around good people.

[Chief Fox]

Now that I've thought about it, not only should you have choked that guy out, but then you should have choked your own son out for sitting there and being like those other do nothings on this thread, then commenced to beat that woman senseless for not applying situational awareness and aliveness training in her life. Only then would all the loose threads of justice have been tied tight.

Next time you're in a similar situation, remember what I've told you.

Thanks, I guess I froze. Next time I'll lay down the proper amount of street justice. I have since declared my now 5 year old son to not be my son at all.

[KC Elbows]

Thanks, I guess I froze. Next time I'll lay down the proper amount of street justice. I have since declared my now 5 year old son to not be my son at all.

You are the man.

I can just see your look of pride when you kicked him out, looking him square in the eye and saying "Who's your daddy? Not me!"

[Royal Dragon]

ST00 has not once on this thread given anyone here the impression that he expects his approach to be seen as perfect, and seems far more receptive to this criticism than those defending him, taking it for what it's worth, point by point. Everything else is personality issues that he hasn't played in to.

reply]
Yes, I noticed that myself. Props to him for that.

I have also noticed he has not been conversing as he useually does....makes me think he is ponderig the whole thing.

[Radhnoti]

I agree that it's worthwhile to discuss the scenario, but RD was in attack mode there, "Are you going to go get some real world training instead of that bad habits NHB drills into you now?" I think most had to weigh in with a "good job" just to counter that negativity. He took what he had to help someone SELFLESSLY, which is great and the world needs more of to improve things. We could/should discuss tactics, but the fact is he probably used the technique he was most comfortable with...and therefore the one with the highest probability of working. He didn't show his back to #2, and he noticed the guy was already backing off when he showed up. Maybe the RIGHT thing to do was to focus on #1.

neilhytholt - "The last time I some poor guy being hassled, there was this little guy, about 4'8". He was trying to steal a cart full of groceries from the supermarket, and literally 5 cop cars were there, and this female cop had this poor guy on the ground, with his arm stretched behind at a very uncomfortable angle. I almost ... almost ... stepped in and told her to go easy on the guy, but I feared for my own safety especially with the show of firepower and force.
So I just walked by and walked away ... still kindof guilty about that one. I mean, the poor guy was just trying to feed his family. Didn't need to get abused like that."

I think that you and I are 180 degrees out of synch with each other. Do you side with the criminal in every instance or does it just seem that way with the anecdotes you share on this board?
The guy ST nailed was a mugger...I feel for the lady, the VICTIM.
The guy you saw was a thief...I feel for the store owner (probably not as rich as you think, and probably working harder to make something for himself and his family), again the VICTIM.
You're worrying about the guys that got what they deserved in all likelihood...that's my take anyway.

[Judge Pen]

I think you read a bit too much into my brief post, but to hit some high points. . . .

Do you really believe that most people would allow that situation to go that way without doing anything? I mean, crime usually is hidden away, the reason why is because people like some order.

Yes, I think that most people would have kept walking. They may have called the police after they felt they were personally out of harms way.

Additionally, if this thread isn't a "pat me on the back" kind of thing, which it didn't come off as being, then discussion is perfectly fair, which really boils down to methods for dealing with the situation.
I have no problem with discussing alternatives. I just was frusterated with all the people belittling ST for reacting to the situation (which went beyond constructive criticism). Some people indicated that demanding money and grabbing at her purse wasn't assualt, which is ridiculous. Besides, by the time I got around to reading the thread and posting, most everything that should or could have been said was already said--thus I just gave a brief response echoing the opinions I agreed with--like dragonzrage's post
Boiling it down to bravery in every post is pretty useless, people have suggested not doing things like this unarmed, which is a good idea, the point that calling police after the fact is a bad idea, etc. These are things we can take away from the discussion, but if discussion is dissuaded, then if we came to this thread knowing no better, then we could do no better.
Again, good discussion before I came along. I probably would have done some things differently, but I admired the fact that he took action nonetheless. Forgive me for not taking the time to write a thesis on the topic instead of a brief paragraph.

I mean, is this supposed to be a thread about how cool ST00 is? Or about that kind of situation and approaches to it?

I've never met the man so I don't know if he is cool or not. I did appreciate his actions in the situation as I do believe that many would have acted cowardly

I agree with gda, the basic ideas are good, just lost behind another argument, but the solution to that argument isn't to dissuade criticism, it's a discussion forum, criticism is a given, and a healthy amount of it is good.

It wasn't my intent to dissuade criticism, but to dissuade stupid criticism. Constructive criticism is always welcome

ST00 has not once on this thread given anyone here the impression that he expects his approach to be seen as perfect, and seems far more receptive to this criticism than those defending him, taking it for what it's worth, point by point. Everything else is personality issues that he hasn't played in to.

Nor did I say his actions were perfect. . . . I just dislike seeing people tear someone down when they weren't there in the first place.

Does he need the rest of us declaring him hero? I already stated that I didn't think that was his intent, the act was its own reward.

We agree. I think you read too much into my post.

Which leaves approaching the topic, the way to handle similar issues, and arguments regarding that. But, if we're gonna paint doing that as "the act of those who have no heroism," then the thread is pointless.

By thie time I got here, the tread had played itself out, and people were making jokes about hammers.

It's NOT either "his mma didn't prepare him" or "these cowards wouldn't have done it", which are both equally meaningless in regards to the original post, and both based on so much vapor. The one is merely a predeliction for one style over the other; the other approach is intellectually equivalent to saying "you never know who will come through, but you won't because..." when the market for doing the right thing when the s hits the fan is hardly cornered by reasonable people, or even all around good people.

I didn't take either approach. I think his actions showed he was a good and reasonable person. What's the big deal in saying that? For what it's worth, I would have called the police first and not went to the ground with the guy, but I don't know if my probable actions would have been any better or worse in these circumstances; just different.

[KC Elbows]

My previous post is proof you cannot dissuade stupid criticism.

I just think there aren't THAT many people on here dogging him(maaaaybe two, one of those sort of is and sort of isn't)*, it's sort of a tempest in a teapot thing, where there's a number of people posting nothing useful to the topic except to dog any criticism, a number of critics who may have some points in between their less salient info, and a useful topic being largely lost to it.

It's just as stupid to suggest that ST00 failed by not applying move x as to suggest that there isn't a situation where it's total stupidity to be brave, step in and die, and that gets lost to the argument that took over.

For instance, he could have used a zip line. I would have. Boo on him.

[DragonzRage]

shaolintiger,

ok i get an idea of what you're saying. so you really didn't let the guy put you in a position of extreme disadvantage, as i originally pictured. my bad for jumping to conclusions.

as for the 911 call thing, yeah just chalk it up to experience. trust me, i'm not trying to say i'm any smarter than you are. i've made very similar mistakes in the past... except i was dumb enough to make them even after graduating from the police academy (where I was taught and trained NOT to make those kind of mistakes). one of the first things i did as a new officer in field training was to jump into an assault/battery in progress, without putting it out on the radio first. afterwards my training officer pulled me aside. i was expecting him to compliment my performance, but instead he chewed my head off about jumping into a fight without putting out my location and advising dispatch regarding the circs. he told me it was one of the stupidest things he ever saw a trainee do. man, i felt like **** afterwards. so anyway, i can relate to the fact that you were presented with dynamic circumstances, and you simply reacted to them. whatever i said before was not meant to take away from the fact that you acted with noble intentions, good resolve, and you prevailed.

[DragonzRage]

"should the person not give a flying donut about the authourity image, they will resort to overwhelming force."

-i wish it were that simple. it always take time for all your back-up to arrive. by the time "overwhelming force" shows up, you might already be shot dead and the suspect long gone.


"if a cop isn't there, and you stop a situation, you have acted correctly."

-don't you think that's a bit too much of a blanket statement? thats like saying that as long as you win a fight, there's nothing you could've done better.

[Knifefighter]

DRage-
Wow, you're a cop now?
Which dept?
Got a couple of friends just coming out of LA Sheriff adademy.

[rogue]

Reply]ST does not have the skills though, his taktics shows he tried to use Ring skills in a real world encounter. He did everything wrong, and quite literaly was at thier mercy even though he didn't realise it, especially with losing track of the second guy.

Now that this thread is calming down a little

RD, what skills are you talking about and where and how did you get yours?