Involved in arrest this morning.

[rogue]

Good for you ST. Not what I would have done but I wasn't there and you were. I think you made some tactical mistakes but that's what happens in the real world, and anybody can make them regardless of their training . Big props for stepping up and helping someone.

Cops do not like civilians to get involved in any crime. IME For all they see most cops are clueless to how a civilian should protect themselves, and I'll be darn if I depend on them when I see trouble. I'm not against cops at all but I do know that during a crime time matters.

If he was to intervne at all, the best thing to do is hose them down with pepper spray and call the cops. forget the movie hero stuff, it's tooo dangerous.

RD, in training have you ever taken a face full of commercial pepper spray while being the attacker? You might change your mind on it's value. Wind, rain, clothing and many other factors can reduce the effectiveness of PS.

[neilhytholt]

Some of you guys are so full of crap it's unbelievable.

You don't seem to realize ST could get into serious trouble for this.

Believe me, if everybody could just beat down every bum hassling people the world would probably be a better place, but the laws don't work that way.

But if you wind up in jail for or worse, injured or dead, for beating down a punk you'll find out what happened.

The cop was right. A) ST is a hero for getting involved. B) He was wrong to beat down on the guy.

Read your law enforcement manuals and check with your lawyers if you don't believe me.

[Royal Dragon]

Sure, he had good controll of the FIRST assailent, but not the second.

He just as quick could have gotten himself killed, as not. It was beyond his controll at that point. You guys may like to congrats the hero, but the truth is he took wreakless risks with his own life, and hers.

Maybe if he had thrown the guy on his head, Shui Qiao style, instead of going down and kneeing him in the throat and holding him I wouldn't be criticizing him, but he didn't, he did something very stupid, and foolish.

if he was going to play hero, that is all fine. I agree we need more of that in this world, but to take stupid foolish chances, sorry, no way.

I seem to remeber giving props to Money Slap a few years ago for steping in in a similar situation. Why him, and Not ST? because he did it right, and didn't take foolish chances and severly endangering himself by doing stupid extremely hi risk techniques.


The real world in NOT the Octagon. You MMA freaks need to learn that.

[The Xia]

As I said before, he gambled with his life. Yes they did turn out to be crackhead hobos, but they could have just as easily been on meth. The second guy not attacking was quite a stroke of fortune as well. While the knee on throat technique was executed, bum # 2 could have thrust a knife into the back, pulled out a pistol and shot, there are too many possibilities. Heres another worst case scenario. As he walks up to them they freak, take out weapons and "go nuts". Overall, the way the incident unfolded was pure luck. Yes he did help someone and that is commendable, but for us and him to ignore the risks taken is foolish.

[The Willow Sword]

Neil is so full of sh!t!! Hahaha he is just intentionally being antagonistic in this thread. He Prolly totally Agrees with what ST did and is just being a sh!tHead as per usual
now watch him counter this with more BS. i mean it IS kinda funny how Neil is approaching all of this. If in fact he is just screwing around. it is funny that there are actually Martial Artists out there that train as hardcore as Neil does who will stand in the Middle of a group watching a fight and say " you guys are going to get hurt". OR after the fight is over they will stand and say "you know this was against the law and if there was a cop around you guys would have been in BIG trouble .

in middle school we used to make newspaper bullets and get thick rubber bands and shoot those nerds in the back whilst they gathered their science books at their lockers. Boy that was fun, those were the days.

wacka wacka wackaaa,,TWS

[Mr Punch]

Good job ST.

Knee on (somewhere) was a good choice I think. It enables you to keep at least partially upright and to view the rest of the situation, and what's more, in this case it was just what you needed to take control of the situation. That makes it perfect.

Of course it's more than a bit worrying that you didn't notice what the other guy was doing, but I've had a few hairy moments where I've completely lost the plot in these sits. That's where experience comes in: not saying that you want many more of those kind of experiences though!

I just got a strange feeling of deja vu!

Of course we all make mistakes but in the end it came good so congrats, and hope you learned some things from it.

Neil, you didn't seem to like or indeed answer my question so here it is again: you're saying 'yell' but bottom line is; if some pair of crackhead bums had just grabbed your daughter's bag, would you just yell at them? You don't know until you're in the situation right?

BE-CAUSE... if it were me, I'd probably be inclined to want to jump up and down on them until their eyes bled. So, I think knee-on-throat was the model of restraint.

[Anthony]

"but the mouthy guy tried to grab at the woman's purse. I grabbed his jacket (only crackheads wear jackets in the summer right?) and threw a right cross and hit him on the chin. "

I think that this part of the story is the key to whether or not you acted hastily or in good judgement. I don't think we have enough details to make statements like this......"You needed to put him down fast and for good......."

It all amounts to how agressive the homeless guys were being. And, whether or not, in your opinion, you and the woman could have gotten away without you beating the guy up. Ethics and the law require you to think of these things during a situation.

Everyone here is arguing this point but really, youre the only one who can answer that because you were in the situation. Are you a hothead? Do you react much faster than you think? Do you believe in "excessive force" and to what extent? Many MA guys are quick to trade punches because that's what they train for.

Did he have a grip on the woman's purse where she couldn't get away? If not, do you think you and the woman could have just gotten away from them? They may not have even followed you. Did you try screaming at them first or verbally threatening them with violence if they didn't back off.

Alot of people are mentioning that he could have had a weapon in his jacket. If he didn't actually go for a weapon or reach into his jacket you would be wrong to assume that he has on and beat him up for it.

Aren't we taught that in a robbery it's smarter to just let the robber have what they want. Sure having a purse stolen is an inconvenience, but is it worth getting into an exchange with a druggie who might have a weapon or a disease? You thought enough to assume he was a crack-head, did you think about getting Aids from him when you punched him in the face?

I'm just throwing this out for the sake of discussion. I don't judge you because I wasn't there. I commend you for going to help someone. I know that things are different when they are actually happening but....the fact of life is that when you are in a situation, you have to be able to read the situation. We all know that homeless people can be aggressive but harmless, and we all know that they are on the news every now and again for hurting someone.

I think you have to do some soul searching to see if you agree with the cop or not.

[Hau Tien]

You obviously must have never lived in any major city to think that ST did the correct thing.

Assaulting a homeless person is NOT the correct thing. If they're giving some woman a hard time (and they were not assaulting her, just messing with her verbally and grabbing at her purse), then you should go over and YELL at them, tell them to back off.

But what ST did was go up to the guy and start beating on him.

Basically what ST did was wrong in the eyes of the law and could land him in jail. In addition, if this occurrence really did happen, he blabbed about it on a public forum, which could be used in evidence in court of his wrong doing.

Not saying I don't morally support what he did. IMHO those guys should have been beaten up. But legally you cannot use that kind of force if they're just hassling somebody. That's called being a vigilante and is frowned on in the eyes of the law.

Oh, come off it. My goodness. Some slimey crackheads were hassling a woman for her purse and one of them got clocked for it. As SOON as they touched the woman, physical means were used, and that's obviously reasonable. No one was seriously hurt (including said crackheads). Someone COULD have been hurt, yes... but that's a danger you face every time you deal with these people.

*I* live in a major city with several sections exactly like what ST described. My girlfriend's office is located in one such section. I'd do EXACTLY what he did (except maybe pay more attention to the buddy ) in that sort of situation.

To tell people that they shouldn't intervene when they see this **** happening only allows it to happen more. That's what those crackheads rely on... no one will say or do anything for fear of having to get involved. That's garbage... people need to get some spine back.

Kudos, ST.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I just want to clarify a few things.

1. they were not asking her for change. before I got there they backed her into the corner of the lot beside her car and threatened to kill her and demanded her purse.

2. When I say "reached for her purse" the guy actually had his hand on her purse strap when I grabbed him.

While I did lose sight of guy #2 for a few seconds after I got the guy under control I looked up and saw him and kept my eyes on him the rest of the time. He might have been out of my sight for 10 seconds or so (which i understand would have been time enough to fire a gun) but there was no way he was walking around to approach me in the back which was the open land of the parking lot.

I do understand that what I did could have been much worse. I could have ran over there and got shot. boom dead. but the truth is that I saw a woman and she needed help and I reacted. I didn't think and right or wrong what I did was what I felt was the right thing to do. I didn't continue to hit him after I got him to the ground because he wasn't resisting enough to harm anyone.

[Royal Dragon]

It's good that you recognise your errors. Are you going to adjust your training to be better prepared to handle the next situation?

[charyuop]

Sorry, but I am a little more drastic. In those situation it is a life matter, no kidding matter.
Next time don't hold the first on the ground. Break something (even a finger is enough sometimes to let him stay down in pain) and go quick for the second. In these days weapons are as common as water, giving a chance to draw one might mean your death.
As per the law I am sure the woman would have confirmed your words saying that they attacked you first and you were just defending yourself.

Wiser thing was breaking something to both of them (or knock them out) and run away...you never know they might have belonged to a gang and being surrounded by them is no laughing.

This position might be against all the Masters/Sifu/Sensei theories and teaching...but you got only one life to live. If you go into a street fight (better always avoid them) make sure you get out alive.

Just my 2 cents.

[Anthony]

"In those situation it is a life matter, no kidding matter."

Well, the first post, which everyone is arguing and calling each other names over, did not make that clear enough. It was kind of vague as to how grave the situation was and I think different people put their own slant on it (given their own experiences).

This post brings up a good subject........legality and ethics and necessary force, right vs. wrong thing to do in the eyes of the law, etc..... Unfortunately, it seems most people here avoid the intelligent, productive aspect of discussion in favor of the "I'm right...youre full of it" type of pointless argument.

Too bad, because it seems a very relevant subject for us as Martial Artists in a modern society.

[The Willow Sword]

As most of us here have already clarified several times, In the life and death situation or in any confrontation where you are in jeapoardy of losing your life or getting seriously mamed, or you are helping to save someone elses life etc etc. You arent stopping to consider if this is legal in the eyes of the law. it is STUPID to even try to think like that when something is going down. It breeds a level of hesitation that will get your a$$ KILLED. because The attacker and the crackheads arent thinking about "well gee uhh is this wrong of me to do, will i get into trouble with tha cops"

WE ARE SO BRAINWASHED THESE DAYS. The MAN really DOES have a Hold on our psyches. we cant take a cr@p these days without having to stop and think if this is legal or am i going to get in trouble or not .

Hey you think that the Firefighters and policemen who died in 9-11 trying to rescue those people in the towers were thinking "boy i may get hurt" or " gee this is violating the rules of whatever reality some suit in a think tank came up with as against the order of things?"

NO, They ACTED and Reacted and gave the gift of SELF SACRIFICE to see that others were safe. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT ST DID and he shoudlnt be burnt at the stake for it or scolded..
If We had read in the papers that ST had been Killed trying to save that woman those of you who are being goody fukin two shoes would be praising him as a hero and shedding a tear rather than belittling the fact that he HELPED SAVE AND
PROTECT A LIFE.
god D@MN you people are dense!!!

Shaolin Tiger? Screw what the detratcors are saying in here, YOU DID the RIGHT thing.

TWS

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

props buddy. you did a good thing and im sure that woman really appreciates it. i wonder how many people she's told about you in the past few days.

royal dragon .... you bring up some valid points, but your kinda being a d!ck about it.

[charyuop]

Was she pretty?
If yes think about offering her self defence lessons for free