best styles of Grappling?

[Knifefighter]

A grappler who claims he will not get hit by a skilled striker because he learned 'dodging' and 'blocking' in some three-hour seminar scam (or even by 'working on' striking a few hours a week with other grapplers!) would be a fool. A grappler hoping to deal with a striker in his range would have to go ahead and learn striking. This would mean doing it the long way and the hard way; going to a boxing gym and getting serious, going to a Muay Thai place and training hard. NOT grasping at some foolish notion that he can learn half of the equation and hope to deal with someone who has learned all of it.

Do you think a grappler can learn to take down a striker without learning much striking?

[Merryprankster]

Knifefighter,

I disagree with the term "anti-grappling," in the sense that I don't believe it actually means anything.

I do concur that you can learn to stuff takedowns and throws without learning the gamut of grappling knowledge.

[Knifefighter]

I do concur that you can learn to stuff takedowns and throws without learning the gamut of grappling knowledge.

I believe there are a variety of techniques that would accomplish this that would, indeed, be most accurately labeled "anti-grappling". These are techniques that would be recognizable to grapplers, but are somewhat different than thse traditionally taught in grappling. These techniques would also include some very specific striking techniques.

[unkokusai]

Do you think a grappler can learn to take down a striker without learning much striking?

Of course. Just as a striker can strike a grappler without learning any grappling. Obviously. The interesting part has to do with who does what first and to what effect.

[BigZib]

Grappling is a sport and nothing more. Why can't you people get it through your heads,I can't see how you guys can go round and round for days and days over whose the toughest,whose the toughest,whos the toughest. I know one thing the toughest fighters never sit and bicker over who knows how to describe theories the best. Really what i'm seeing in here is a writing contest between a bunch of wanta bees... How gay you all are and you cant even see it. Well, I see it.

[unkokusai]

Thanks for your input newbie.


STFU

[bodhitree]

wow, so friendly. We all have a different approach to martial arts. I personally consider grappling a very valuable part of my MA experience. I am training for a sanshou fight in october (Tony Yang's tournament) and I am still grappling, although sanshou does not contain grappling. Why you may ask? Grappling allows you to try to controll, balance, position, posture, leverage, and use skills against a live opponent. In my opinion these are skills which can transfer to all areas of combat.

[unkokusai]

although sanshou does not contain grappling.

No? I think you mean to say it doesn't contain groundfighting.

[bodhitree]

Okay, I stand corrected.

[franco1688]

It seems like big zip and I are on the same page.

[mattb]

It seems like big zip and I are on the same page.

You wouldn't happen to know each other or even be the same person would you?

[franco1688]

No.

I also wanted to say that I am in no way a troll. I'm an experienced martial artist and I was a bouncer (and head of security,eventually) at a night club for eight years (currently I'm a night club manager). I didn't join this thread to talk s**t. I'm in to reality based training that provides real results when fighting in real fights. I'm not a "forms collector," nor am I a martial arts theroist. Right now I have some time on my hands (my club is closed for repairs) and I just wanted to chat with other martial artisits who share the same interests. Since I've been on this thread it seems as though I've been running into the same sort of stuff that has always drove me nuts in the martial arts community, politics. Anyone who's been involved in martial arts and/or competing knows exactly what I'm talking about (who's styles the best, what style is the best, who knows more techniques, who's the toughest). Talk, talk, talk, that's all it is. If one spends so much time thinking about martial arts and talking about martial arts how could you possibly have enough time to train and test your skills. I don't have a problem with people who train as a hobby or train merely because they enjoy the beauty of martial arts as an art, whatever inspires one to train, at least your training.I think that's great. If you are training to fight and consider yourself a fighter then you should be prepared to fight. I'm not here to talk smack, I'm just here to read other peoples input and provide my input. I can't speak on behalf of others but, me personally, I train to fight. I'm a realist, I know that I can be beat, but what really matters is that I'm willing to put myself and my skills on the line. I will provide any information that anyone wants if they wish to get together and move around. If one gets the best of me that's o.k. because I learned from it and obviously I can learn a few things from you. But either way, I can promise one thing, it won't be easy and you will remember moving around with me.

-"Hit fast, hit hard, hit often."- Richard Pitts

-"How do you beat a man who trains hard everyday? He puts himself through more pain and punishment than any man could and he loves to get hit...... "
- Richard Pitts

-It's not the man who talks the most s**t that you have to worry about, that's all he does is talk. It's the quiet guy sitting in the back of the room that you have to worry about." - my father

[BigZib]

Word!!!!!!!

[BigZib]

Bigzib And Franco Are Not The Same User

[Merryprankster]

I think what you'll find franco, is that mostly what's going on in this thread is that people are really arguing about what the definition of grappling is.

That may seem esoteric, but I don't think it is. If people don't agree on definitions, they aren't going to agree on much else.

By way of example, the root of the Israel-Palestine conflict is actually about differing definitions of what it means to purchase land, dating back to the 19th century, via the Ottoman Empire.

So definitions IMO can be quite important, since words mean things.

As far as talking and training - there are plenty of people out there that do both. I'll concur that most of the people who are serious about their training don't TALK **** and train.

As for me, I would tend to disagree that grappling is a sport and nothing more. Being dropped on your head on concrete hardly constitutes "sport," and I think we can all agree is quite real world, as might be getting blindside tackled in a club. It's a question of training outside the sportive rules and rule sets we tend to use. IE, the question "would you get points for that?" becomes immaterial.

You even (often) see it in MMA ring fights. Karo Parysian (sp) is a tremendous judoka, but his throws againt Diego Sanchez in his last fight didn't leave him in good position - he was throwing as if he were at a Judo tournament, where the object is merely to lay the opponent down across his shoulder blades, regardless of where YOU finish up.

Similarly, flopping to your butt, al a the infamous BJJer with no takedown skills, is a rather dangerous street tactic in MOST situations.