Pheonix eye punch in WC

[tjwingchun]

You'd have to believe that Dim Mak works for that statement to carry any weight. Besides, it's one of the five basic Xingyi strikes as well as being used in many other styles, including an Ohara publications book, and its laughable to think that taking it out of the WC you taught would stop anyone finding out about it.

My view of Dim Mak is that if you think of it as causing internal injury or bleeding then it will take some time for the injury or infection to take effect, if there is no modern medical diagnostic and treatment methods available the death by septicemia would be inevitable.

Not that I can speak for Yip Man but I can understand his reticence and wish not to be responsible for arming a wider community with what he thought of as a dangerous/fatal weapon when he saw that Wing Chun was set to become a global phenomenon.

Lee Chiang Po, it is my humble opinion that the old adage "Attack is the best form of defence.", the trouble is that we face different levels of violence and need to make decisions about the level of response that is suitable, which is why the law takes into consideration "reasonable use of force".

I always tell my students that the most difficult fight situation is the drunken relative at a funeral or wedding who is trying to take your head off and you don't want to hurt them, lol the most dangerous is the confrontation with a good boxer or streetfighter as they would not be good if they could not take a punch to the head, which is where striking to soft tissue areas comes into play and the Phoenix Eye an option.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Sorry, but I can't go there with you on this one. The punch using the middle finger in a "phoenix eye-like" way... I have never seen used in except by my kenpo friends. They call it a "dragon" punch. The fact is, my kenpo friends tell me to use it in a direct punch to the sternum. However, I do not agree with this use of it at all and would only use it in the fashion that I would use a phoenix eye. But then I'd just use the phoenix eye as it is firmer for this type of work.
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When the Tiger Fist is made, you would have to look closely to see that it did include the middle knuckle. It looks like what you describe as a Pheonix Eye. It does not extend as far as the first knuckle either. It is more a brace than a point of impact. It makes the fist very firm and strong.
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Lee Chiang Po i think your Wing Chun is Lee Shing Wing Chun wich is a form of Pien San Wing Chun this is the Wing Chun that Lee Shing learned in Koo Lo villiage in Kwangtung Province China it come from Leung Jan . The name of your Wing Chun called Lee Shin Sing Wing Chun is Lee Shings Pien San Koo Loo Wing Chun . There is a guy on this forum who practices Pien San Wing Chun you should ask him about it .
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Mr. Lee learned his Kung Fu well before 1900, so if this fellow was from back then it is probably right. I do not know, and have not actually tried to trace the lineage. My father died in 1965, between 85 and 90 years old. I asked him his age, and he told me the year, but it did not match up with the dates and times we use in this country. Mother Jud told me he was between 85 and 90.

[monkeyfoot]

I study Foshan wingchun, and a lot of emphasis is put on the pheonix eye punch, in both forms and applications.

I havent studied the 3rd form yet, but both the first and second form use this punch many a time.

As for application, Im not too keen on using a pheonix eye for pressure point striking against a resisting opponent (although a fellow ex-student shot a decent pheonix eye to a guys temple when defending himself). It is however really effective for striking the breastplate, eye and just above the top lip.

craig

[anerlich]

Not that I can speak for Yip Man but I can understand his reticence and wish not to be responsible for arming a wider community with what he thought of as a dangerous/fatal weapon when he saw that Wing Chun was set to become a global phenomenon.

Oh sure, whereas he kept the much safer butterfly swords and pole

[Firehawk4]

LEE SING WING CHUN
Founder: Lee Sing

Line: Line: (Yim Wing Chun & Leung Bok-Liu?) -> Wong Wah Bo & Leung Yee Tai -> Leung Jan -> Chan Wah Sun -> Fong Sung & Ng Chun So & Yip Man & some of Yip Man's students (Lok Yiu, Jiu Wan, ?), ? - > Lee Sing

Curriculum: Siu Nim Tao; Chin Kuen (Arrow Punch); Chum Kiu; Sao Bao Kuen (Sandbag Form); Sap Lok Gerk Fat (16 Kicking Form); Seung Kwan Fat (Douple Stick Form); Chi Kwan Fat (Chi Kwan Set); Bil Chee; Chi Kung Fat (Chi Kung Set); Mok Yan Jong Fat; Luk Dim Boon Kwan (6 1/2 Pole- 4 different sets); Bart Jam Do (8 .

Note: I have been told that this style resembles the Sup Yee Sic of Yuen style, which came from Chueng Bo (a great-great grand-student of Fung Siu Ching) to Sum Nung. I have also heard that it uses something like Yuen style's Hoi Sic (Opening Form which I believe Sum Nung created for Yuen forms) in which case it is *very* likely that there is a connection between Cheung Bo (or his "relatives") and/or Sum Nung. Note: Both Yuen style and Fong style have also been called "Side Body" at times, so there may be another connection there.

http://www.wingchun.com/compiled.html
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....rticle&sid=106

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....content&tid=30
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....content&tid=69
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....content&tid=31
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....content&tid=32
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules....content&tid=20
http://www.cebridge.com.au/Ipman/Sifus/Lee%20Shing.htm

[Lee Chiang Po]

LEE SING WING CHUN
Founder: Lee Sing

Line: Line: (Yim Wing Chun & Leung Bok-Liu?) -> Wong Wah Bo & Leung Yee Tai -> Leung Jan -> Chan Wah Sun -> Fong Sung & Ng Chun So & Yip Man & some of Yip Man's students (Lok Yiu, Jiu Wan, ?), ? - > Lee Sing
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The names all sound right, but Mr. Lee was over 20 years old in 1900. He was a boxer during the rebellion. He did not leave China until 1949 when the communists took China. He came to America in early 1950's. I think he would be too old to have been Yip Man's student. He named his youngest son Sing after his own father. All his children but me were born in China. He adopted me.

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Curriculum: Siu Nim Tao; Chin Kuen (Arrow Punch); Chum Kiu; Sao Bao Kuen (Sandbag Form); Sap Lok Gerk Fat (16 Kicking Form); Seung Kwan Fat (Douple Stick Form); Chi Kwan Fat (Chi Kwan Set); Bil Chee; Chi Kung Fat (Chi Kung Set); Mok Yan Jong Fat; Luk Dim Boon Kwan (6 1/2 Pole- 4 different sets); Bart Jam Do (8 .
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He had a system for us to practice. Knives, but not poles.

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Note: I have been told that this style resembles the Sup Yee Sic of Yuen style, which came from Chueng Bo (a great-great grand-student of Fung Siu Ching) to Sum Nung. I have also heard that it uses something like Yuen style's Hoi Sic (Opening Form which I believe Sum Nung created for Yuen forms) in which case it is *very* likely that there is a connection between Cheung Bo (or his "relatives") and/or Sum Nung. Note: Both Yuen style and Fong style have also been called "Side Body" at times, so there may be another connection there.
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You could not prove any of this by me. I didn't know that there were so many other styles until I found this site on the net. I was aware that there were some different styles, like the Hung Fi Yi and a few others, but not like I am seeing here.
I have altered some of the forms I was taught. I have added, but not taken from them. I have found it very interesting that practitioners seem to have different interpretations of some of the moves in these forms. I am sure Mr. Lee had his own interpretations, which he did pass on to me. And I feel that he was right. So I have practiced these forms in the sense that I was doing a particular technique. I don't know if that makes sense. I suppose that I have altered it enough that I can call it Lee Chiang Po Wing Chun Kung Fu. That is a joke.