Tricks to Stance training

[Wil-Hung]

Are there any philosophies or methods by which one can better tolerate a Horse stance or Twisted horse (unicorn) stance. My foundation is not as strong as it should be, and when I settle in a wave of pain overwhelms me, followed by calm serenity, and just when I feel I'm there, anaother wave of pain rushes in. It's like a pain hurricane!! Some styles have a higher sitting horse stance. At my school with my sifu, you WILL learn to sit low. I just want to be more tolerant or find a way to ignore it, for progressions sake. Thanks.

[street_fighter]

I've got a way. Suck it up! Really, the only way you will be able to sit in ma bu longer is by sitting in ma bu... Its not that painful. Once you start doing it regularly, it gets easier and easier, and you get used to hard work. Only a begginer should be having trouble with this training. Go and train!

[BlueTravesty]

street fighter has taken the correct, and seen its potential as a student; but being leary, requires that the correct go through intense and painful discipline to prove itself worthy of his time.

I know how you feel, W-H. If the pain you feel is mostly in your quadriceps, one way you can mitigate it is to add more squats into your regimen. THis is something that I found helped me to get lower. There was still pain, but not the OHNOMYLEGSAREMELTING! pain. It was a more even sort of pain spread about the legs, since the quads were finally able to do their fair share of the work. Unfortunately, due to a rash of double-shifts and coming in on my days off, I've neglected this part of training, and BOY did I feel the difference... ouch. We've just gotta be tough and stick it out though!

Another thing you can do for the mental side (since it's at least 50% mental) is to find a song that's a little longer than the amount of time your horse stance is. Make sure you know the song backward and forward- lyrics, drum/instrument solos, etc. to where you can pretty much conjure it up in your head at will. When you get settled into your nice, low horse stance, focus on the song, try to HEAR it as if it were really playing. This works better for some people than others. One of the senior students where I take class has said that the song thing doesn't work for him, but meditating does. To each their own, I suppose.

[Oso]

Are there any philosophies or methods by which one can better tolerate a Horse stance or Twisted horse (unicorn) stance. My foundation is not as strong as it should be, and when I settle in a wave of pain overwhelms me, followed by calm serenity,


lol, that's endorphines...


and just when I feel I'm there, anaother wave of pain rushes in. It's like a pain hurricane!! Some styles have a higher sitting horse stance. At my school with my sifu, you WILL learn to sit low. I just want to be more tolerant or find a way to ignore it, for progressions sake. Thanks.

seriously though...figure out a schedule and rate of progression that makes sense to you.

or, just keep sitting till you fall down and then do it again.

[yu shan]

One of my Shifu`s, Art D`Agostino was into these long ma bu sessions. He would sit and read to us, or go into his kitchen and stir fry. If he read, I focused on this interpretation. He always read quality material. And if he was cooking, ahhh, the wonderful aroma from my Shifu`s wok. He also expounded on the following: "to be mind strong" and to also "see thru the pain". I carry this memory of him and will never forget it. I almost forgot, we basically trained outdoors in Florida, mosquito`s were abundant and all over your body, just adding to the fun! And you dare not swat...

A kung fu brother of mine sits in ma bu for 2 hours everyday. He says the first hour is for your kung fu, the second hour is for you, or something to that effect.

Blue, I see you are from my hometown of Brandon. I`ll send you a pm, I come home often maybe we could workout sometime.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i think the best way for me when i was first starting was to do something else while holding the horse stance. i remember when i first held my stance for more than 5 minutes i was doing the dishes. you can also do it while folding clothes, or some other simple chore that doesnt require you to move much. (plus my wife always appreciated my helpfulness) anyway, your attention is somewhere else so you dont notice how much it hurts. the point of horse stance training i think is to learn to do this without actually doing something else. to sublimate the pain. but before you get to that point its nice to a) have practice and b) have the confidence to say to yourself 'hey i held this for 5 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever the other day so this is no big deal.' commercials are good for this too. watch a movie on tv. every 10 minutes or so they show 3 minutes of commercials. 3 minute horse stance isnt hard and really helps build endurance in the beginning. then a 10 minute rest and 3 minutes of stances until the program is over. eventually you can switch it and while you are watching the program hold the stance for 10 minutes and rest for the commercials.
also when you are not doing horse stances and you are just sitting around doing nothing you can do wall sits. they help a lot and are less painful.

[Crushing Fist]

Very good responses...


the pain is like being cold

the more you resist being cold the worse it gets

once you accept the cold, relax into it, you find that it isn't that bad after all.


in this case the 'cold' is a burning pain in your legs

remember to breathe

one thing I do is to count slowly in my head, giving me a point of focus


a way that we trick new students into staying down longer is to have them do punching drills while sitting in the stance

gives them something else to focus on


for extra fun rise up onto the balls of your feet as high as you can while staying low in the stance


after that the normal stance won't seem so bad

[yu shan]

Good point Crushing Fist, concentrating on the breath is very important.

[Wil-Hung]

Guys,

I am very grateful for the replies, The counting technique, the cold technique, and the technique of seeking and embracing it may work for me. That embracing technique intrigues me due to the counterintuitive nature of attacking it directly. It equates to me, the theory of closing the distance when engaged in conflict, vs distancing yourself to avoid. That was initially hard to grasp, until I tried it. It is most economical. I waste so much time/energy trying to ignore it or conquer it. Now, can hopefully salvage my sanity during "stance training" night.
I must be a little "twisted", but in some sick, demented way, and as much pain as it causes me, I actually enjoy "sai ping dai ma"!! Yeah, I said it. Wow, That was kind of cathartic.

[dainos]

thats ok to be a little twisted. i enjoy getting beat up. seiping ma is my favorite stance.

do it regularly and you will fine

[monkeyfoot]

heres what helped me

1) Regular training of course

2) do something with your hands eg hook grapple pluck or hold them in a 'chi' position in front of you. It will take your mind away from the pain.

3) ALTER THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION ON YOUR FEET. Believe me, by putting more weight on the heels or on the ball of the foot you can relieve the pain.

4) focus on something (eg the lower dantian)

5) abdominal breathing is a must, a regular breathing pattern will give oxygen to the blood.

6) if you believe in chi, then keep the tip of your tongue touching the roof of the mouth, this will allow it to circulate around your body.

7) This is a biggy, DO NOT PULL OUT for a second and then sit back down into the stance.......it just makes it far worse

happy horse training

craig

[BruceSteveRoy]

i never knew why that was why my old sifu had us put our tongues on the roof of our mouth. it just goes to show in spite of all the petty nonsense that this site has on it (like the bickering and challenging) you can still learn very interesting and useful info.

and yeah i didnt even think abou the not rising up and tryin gto go back down thing. it just reminds you of how bad that inital pain was except worse because your legs are tired. whereas they get kinda used to the pain if you just tough it out.

[BlueTravesty]

One of my Shifu`s, Art D`Agostino was into these long ma bu sessions. He would sit and read to us, or go into his kitchen and stir fry. If he read, I focused on this interpretation. He always read quality material. And if he was cooking, ahhh, the wonderful aroma from my Shifu`s wok. He also expounded on the following: "to be mind strong" and to also "see thru the pain". I carry this memory of him and will never forget it. I almost forgot, we basically trained outdoors in Florida, mosquito`s were abundant and all over your body, just adding to the fun! And you dare not swat...

A kung fu brother of mine sits in ma bu for 2 hours everyday. He says the first hour is for your kung fu, the second hour is for you, or something to that effect.

Blue, I see you are from my hometown of Brandon. I`ll send you a pm, I come home often maybe we could workout sometime.

I knew Mr. D'Agostino! I used to work night shifts at the Kash n' Karry on Bloomingdale Ave. He and his wife used to do grocery shopping on my shifts. Talk about a very nice guy. I never trained with him, but my conversations with him were one of the two major catalysts that led me to start CMA. I don't work there anymore, and I haven't seen him, but every once in awhile I see his wife at GNC when I need more B-complex.

The workout thing sounds like a capital idea to me. If you're ever so inclined, drop me a PM.

[Reggie1]

i never knew why that was why my old sifu had us put our tongues on the roof of our mouth. it just goes to show in spite of all the petty nonsense that this site has on it (like the bickering and challenging) you can still learn very interesting and useful info.

That's not the only reason. It also keeps you from biting your tongue during fighting.

[BlueTravesty]

While we were doing horse stance tonight, a thought occurred to me. Perhaps another benefit of Horse Stance (besides structure, leg training, endurance) is mental training. Now we all know about the discipline aspect of it, right? Well, something kinda struck me, and though it struck me before I was never able to put it into a viable framework.

Perhaps Horse Stance can be used to train the mind to help perceive time differently. We have a saying at class, I believe one of the blue belts came up with it... "There's no minute longer than a minute in horse stance." Of course, there are drills that are every bit as grueling (to me anyway) or more so; focus punching, squat sidekicks and wall splits come to mind. But in those, you can become occupied with movement. In Horse stance you are stationary. You cannot move, you cannot fall. You can only endure. On and on the seconds go, each one seemingly frozen, going by at a glacial pace.

Now imagine you are in a combat situation. Your pulse races, your body is preparing to fight or flee. Wouldn't it be great to tap into that same state of mind when fighting? Each second, and therefore each action by your opponent going by ever so slowly. With time seemingly slowing, you could recognize your opponents moves and intentions more quickly, and in theory your reactions and exploitation of their openings will be that much sharper.

I'm just a newb, so I might be TOTALLY off. But it's an interesting layer to Ma Bu, I think, and one I'm gonna try to build on when I practice. Thoughts, anyone?