Which technique would you use against a double leg takedown?

[Knifefighter]

If I didn't spot the shoot in enough time to avoid, I would sprawl probably followed by a hammer fist to the back of the head, probably followed by a knee to the face. Repeat... Hammer Knee...Hammer Knee.

Normally, if the sprawl is high enough to allow a hammer fist, the defender will end up being taken down. A good sprawl does not allow room for a hammer fist. The hands are also better used for other things such as body wraps, over/underhooks, head control, hip control, etc. Trying to strike from a sprawl just makes it easier for the opponent to finish the takedown.

[Chief Fox]

Normally, if the sprawl is high enough to allow a hammer fist, the defender will end up being taken down. A good sprawl does not allow room for a hammer fist. The hands are also better used for other things such as body wraps, over/underhooks, head control, hip control, etc. Trying to strike from a sprawl just makes it easier for the opponent to finish the takedown.

Well, my grappling experience consists of one year of wrestling back in 8th grade. So i think I know what I'm talking about.

Seriously, I really have no business even discussing grappling. The last time a person shot in on me, I sprawled, put my weight into his back and he ended up on his face. That's about it.

So take my comments on this subject with a grain of salt. Thanks for the input though.

[unkokusai]

Posts #16 & 17: great, real human being exchange. Bravo.

[Knifefighter]

The last time a person shot in on me, I sprawled, put my weight into his back and he ended up on his face. That's about it.

That's exactly what should happen, so you probably executed the sprawl flawlessly.

[unkokusai]

That's exactly what should happen, so you probably executed the sprawl flawlessly.

No matter how well you sprawl, that is not going to happen unless the guy shooting sucks badly.

[Knifefighter]

No matter how well you sprawl, that is not going to happen unless the guy shooting sucks badly.

True...
...or unless you outweigh him by about 200 lbs.

[unkokusai]

True...
...or unless you outweigh him by about 200 lbs.

LOL I was thinking that, but if you keep your hips under you you won't get splayed out face first, but rather crunched into an accordian like in the old cartoons.

[Mr Punch]

I put sprawl, because it's the one I've practised most and it's the one I consider highest percentage.

But, I have also dropped down and taken their head/neck before too. If you get your legs back quick enough this works like a sprawl, if not you have to use evasive footwork while you have the head and you kind of throw them off to one side like one of the MT throws. I've only used it on people who stay down low in a crouch and don't have such a level change for the shoot though.

And I still think the knee/kick in head has a lot of worth against bums! And sometimes even trained fighters but it's not so high a percentage.

On the street I've seen (bad takedown attempts but) overhead head control (like going for the guillotine) and swinging the head round into a wall (wish my shot had been better! That hurt my head pretty much - but was a good lesson). And a step back and to the side and soccer style kick to the head (the guy was a good football player - there are many times when I think being well athletically trained in anything gives you an advantage in a fight!).

Don't forget, in other countries where there isn't a high-school wrestling tradition like there is in the US, the shoot and DL is usually going to be from drunken bums and untrained!

[Mr Punch]

LOL I was thinking that, but if you keep your hips under you you won't get splayed out face first, but rather crunched into an accordian like in the old cartoons.

LOL, I'm doing something 'right' then... that's my usual finishing position!

[Mr Punch]

Kata Gatamei
Kabishimei
forearm shields
neck ties
?

[Dragon Warrior]

im suprised nobody mentioned the GIULLOTENE.

[Samurai Jack]

Kata Gatemei means "shoulder cut" in Japanese, Kabishimei means "neck-choke". These techniques are from aikido and jujutsu respectivly. I've been practicing grappling arts off and on for close to twenty years, but when it comes to terms like "sprawl" and "guard", while I know what's being said, we don't call those things by those terms. It's not just semantics either; I've seen very different things between traditional Jujutsu and BJJ. But I digress.

Kata Gatemei: When your opponent goes in for the shoot you place one hand on top of his shoulder and another underneath the other. There are several things you can do from here footwork-wise, so I'll just describe the shoulder cut itself. The hand that's on top presses down with the edge of the handcutting into his body and down toward the ground. You can step back with his momentum or just drop to your knees or even flat on top of him... it's like a sprawl but you have a little more control IMO. You ideally end up with his face in the mat and his arm twisted behind him with his shoulder immobolized... we often go for pinning our ooponent's face down in aikido and jujutsu. Of course combat is too fluid to predict how this all turns out but there are many options.

Kabishi mei: Several ways to get there. It can be a traditional guillotine manuever, or it can start out the way I described above but your top hand pushes down on his shoulder and your bottom hand snakes under and grabs him by the throat... it's tough to explain but there are ways of taking advantage of his back to being to you by combining the above shoulder immobiliztion with a choke... normally I like to actually grab his throat with my fingers and dig in while I use my other arm to guillotine. That dosen't always work so well, but when it does it's pretty shocking to most people... if the throat grab fails you've still got your arms in position for applying pressure to the carotid arteries. Again, ideally you should be doing both.

Hope that helps.

[Samurai Jack]

im suprised nobody mentioned the GIULLOTENE.

Somebody did, sort of. Like I said not everyone calls it that. There are some judo/jujutsu/aikido guys on this board. Wonder where they are?

[Mr Punch]

im suprised nobody mentioned the GIULLOTENE.

Oh yeah. I used to get caught with the ****er enough when I started! Wouldn't rate it as high percentage against a good shooter though, cos they should have their head up and stuck into you. Works from neck control like I was talking about before sometimes though.

Jack, I'm an (kind of ex-) aikidoka as you know... never done guillotine in aiki though... do you, and if so what do you call it? There is a pic of Ueshiba in his daitoryu days doing one on the ground on Jason Delucia's site though.

[Samurai Jack]

Mr. Punch... I've been talking about it all along. It's called Kabishimei..."neck choke". Did you used to be called Mat?