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Thread: Move your front foot first or move your back foot first?

  1. #1
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    Move your front foot first or move your back foot first?

    In the following video, when he moves forward or left, he moves his "front" foot first, his back foot then follow.



    He can also move his "back" foot first, his front foot then moves forward or moves to the left.

    What's the difference here? Which method do you prefer and why? Your thought?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-04-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I think that you need to move the foot that needs to be moved to gain the position of strength according to your reckoning and using the base of the style you use. Orthodoxy will often fail when it comes to the real dynamics of fighting being the gist of it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #3
    Front to back for standard attack/defense, back to front is an explosive, fully committed attack. Depends on strategy.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
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    I don't prefer one or the other. They go hand and hand so I use both. In Kali we train male and female triangle stepping. The male triangle is pointed toward the opponent, and the female is pointed away. Here's a brief video I found which demonstrates this.


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    Here's another decent video of the triangle footwork in Kali Arnis.


  6. #6
    I get wanting to dissect martial techniques, especially some of the more esoteric stuff, but you keep making these threads asking black or white questions. The answer is always "do what needs to be done in the moment" always. Lead with front fist or cross with back depending on the moment. Throw your opponent or strike them in the groin depending on the moment. Move with front leg first or back leg depending on the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    The answer is always "do what needs to be done in the moment" always. Lead with front fist or cross with back depending on the moment. Throw your opponent or strike them in the groin depending on the moment. Move with front leg first or back leg depending on the moment.
    If this issue is that simple, I won't even bother to start this thread.

    A good footwork should reduce your risk to the minimum. Depending on the "distance between you and your opponent", which leg should move first can produce different risk factory. IMO, we should look at your footwork from your opponent's point of view and not just from your own point of view. In other words, when your opponent moves in, what kind of footwork that he performs can present you an opportunity for your attack?

    We should look at this issue from both the "striker" as well as the "grappler" point of view. Even in striking, the kickers may share different view with punchers. For example, what's the best moment to send out your favor leading leg "side kick" when your opponent moves in? A pure puncher will never have to consider that.

    In both the grappling art and the kicking art, you have "rooting leg" and "attacking leg". Depending on where you may land your "rooting leg", it defines the "effective attacking range" for your "attacking leg". Most grapplers/kickers will have their favor "rooting leg" and "attacking leg". A grappler has good "hip throw" on both sides, or a kicker has good "side kick" on both sides is not very common.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-05-2014 at 11:25 AM.
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    Since this forum has almost turned into a WC forum or "internal is better than external" discussion forum, I thought I could at least started a "general MA discussion" thread so everybody from all styles can participate. This is the least that I can do for this forum.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-05-2014 at 12:05 PM.
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    In mantis, we use both methods depending on the situation. Front, then back foot is faster and gives the opponent less time to respond. Back, then front is more powerful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    In mantis, we use both methods depending on the situation. Front, then back foot is faster and gives the opponent less time to respond. Back, then front is more powerful.
    Also

    - front and back will cover less space. I'll call it "1/2 step".
    - back and front will cover more space. I'll call it "full step".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 03-05-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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    OMG, Shut My Mouth!-No_Know Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    I get wanting to dissect martial techniques, especially some of the more esoteric stuff, but you keep making these threads asking black or white questions. The answer is always "do what needs to be done in the moment" always. Lead with front fist or cross with back depending on the moment. Throw your opponent or strike them in the groin depending on the moment. Move with front leg first or back leg depending on the moment.

    You say you want to dissect martial technique, yet all you seem to basically see is do what's right in the moment, which makes sense.[Dissection]Where do you get what's right to do in that particular moment?[Dissection]Your correct action is based on your interpretation[Dissection]Your interpretation is based on your assigning values to actions you presumed you'd face-you'd have to do drills or study what to do when things happen. The things you assigned are not givens for correct actions and easier said than done. Yes you do one step first or the other but where's your understanding coming from if you have any, for What makes you choose which step-Do you think people should just automatically /naturally know? Don't you think you need to understand how to interpret moments; and your understanding of the moments goes to your choosing which leg first which step first?

    Throwing doesn't just happen because you say so on paper. If that's your experience then please excuse me O Sensei Ueshiba

    There's things called distraction and being distracted. When Stuff goes down, some freeze(distracted), some think of loved ones(distraction), some might think what techniques they should do(distracted). If you can have the presence of mind to act even unexpectedly [Yes, expect the unexpected] and suitably to the situation...O.K. Buddha.

    No_Know

    To strike them in the groin you have to reach down there exposing your top or distancing you because you used your foot instead of your shin or knee...it can have a high chance of success, but not all drop or stop long if you connect well. It's worse if you glance off the thigh. And at some point now they close to punish you. Groin shots reduce in chances of success the more you try them. Stepping in could work, stepping back could help. Side stepping with a guarded technique could get you through to the next seconds. Even stepping in a good direction with a good foot first What's your top action..attack-press, push/buck, guarded--deflect, block, capture; evade--rear, feint, slip?

    Do you still see No dissection...one might wonder.

    No_Know
    Last edited by No_Know; 03-05-2014 at 12:43 PM. Reason: i w/ e
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    Throw your opponent ... depending on the moment.
    The "hip throw (mother of all throws)" will require you to

    1. move your right foot in front of your opponent's right foot.
    2. move your left foot in front of his left foot.
    3. your one arm wrap on his one arm.
    4. your other arm wrap around his waist or under hook his shoulder.
    5. You hip touch his belly.

    Which leg to move first will decide whether you can achieve all the above 5 requirements or not. It's not as simple as "depending on the moment".
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    Front first straight needs upper body distraction while bringing up your rear leg and establishing it. This allows you to set-up closer to person's inside. Or you use it to close the distance keeping your upper body still making it not noticeable that you're that much closer because there was not much side to side movement to alert them.

    Front first outside is a distraction and final closing move. Front foot first might be pushing off the rear leg to make that happen, yet is still in movement-front first. Use front first to close-passive move. Front first outside puts the other side of your body closer to the opponent's center line while taking their eyes off of your other-side middle or low attack Consequences: you expose the rear leg side and back to a middle or high or from above angular as well as becoming groin accessible (not an issue in a ring type event).

    Rear leg first to support forward movement.

    Sidestep to keep distance while person is closing. Use this as a spring board to close.

    No_Know
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  14. #14
    i'm saying in a fight, you can create situations that are optimal for techniques but you also have to be able to be reactionary too.

    Say your opponent is left foot forward and you are left foot forward and you know one of you has to step in to get into fighting range. You assume the opponent is going to step right to reach you so you plan to step right on the outside to intercept for the throw, but instead of stepping your opponent hops in left foot forward to deliver the strike. you started moving when they did to intercept but now you are on the inside and not outside. To attempt the throw now is ludicrous. So you have to change and adapt to the situation. Maybe twist stance into groin hit or back sweep to continue with your momentum and catch them while they are still moving.

    All I'm saying is that in a fight or even sparring, it's always a bit of chaos with and guesswork. Even if you are particularly good at the feint and opening up your opponent, ultimately they may not react the way you needed them to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Also

    - front and back will cover less space. I'll call it "1/2 step".
    - back and front will cover more space. I'll call it "full step".
    Yes to MYM and YKW above. Do you bounce or shuffle? Why?
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