Familiar with Wah Lum? Need advice

[ANT101]

At 28 go for both the kung fu and tai chi. It will be the best investment you ever made.The contract is for you to commit to them in your own best interest. They are already committed.They hang the sign.They have the alter.Consider yourself lucky to train with them.

Sorry but a contract is never produced just for the signee's "best interest". Contracts favor the producer of the contract more then anything. I took business classes. I know. If they offered the first month under no contract, then I wouldn't be so hesitant.

[ANT101]

The workout in Wah Lum is really challenging. Your legs will feel like you are wearing 220 lb steel shoes on the first week of training... really intense.

And the chief instructor in this particular school (Mr. G. Kee) is very talented. Good character, good kung fu. He is not a "show off person", if you know what I mean. He is very discret, but believe me, his kung fu is awesome.

I would go for it, no doubt.

The more challenging the better.

Yeah, I had my mind up until he told me about the contract. I'm still looking around though. I don't know if I'm into the Nothern Praying Mantis style. It doesn't seem to have the versatility that I want. A lot of weapons training, a lot of kicking but someone said not much grappeling and I read that is like 70% kicks and 30% hands.

The Shaolin Martial Art Inc (The 5 animal guy) sounds interesting. I like the versatility and knowing not just one style but 5 styles.

[Ou Ji]

Just wondering what style of Yoga you practiced. I was self-taught in Yoga by book years before I got into MA. Since then I've had formal instruction in Ashtanga, also known as Power Yoga. I need to get that back into my training.

Ok, here's the link to Tracy's Shaolin school:
http://www.shaolinassociation.com/

He offers a 6 week trial class but I believe there will be a contract if you decide you like it and want to stay. You're making it difficult by insisting on no contract.

I thought George had a one month trial but maybe it's changed. You might want to call and ask.

Either way you're going to have to sign a contract if you want to go to a reputable commercial school. If you don't want that then you're left with the guys that teach out of the back yard or a garage.

Unfortunately, as most teachers on the forum are finding out, the only way to operate a successful commercial school is to have contracts and kids after school classes.

[mantid1]

I tried to stay out of this one but I cant take it any longer.

I have a full time school but I do not have people sign contracts.

My next school I will.

My students have stolen $500 from me just this month. They get two months behind on tuition and just leave, sticking me with the bill.

I have to pay rent so my students can have a nice place to train in. I do not work another job so I can offer my students more options for class times. This also gives me more time to train which will make the information I pass on to my students higher quality than when I had a full time job and just taught a few days a week part time.

When people join a gym they have to sign a contract just to use the facility. They dont usually teach you anything unless you pay extra for the class.

What is the problem with a Matrial arts school having "agreements"?

I know, I know you are one of the guys who wouldnt skip out on a debt. Want to hear something funny? That is what all of the people who have stuck me told me when they signed up.

What a person charges has to do with what their monthly over head is. So you cant say that $100 is over priced if the guy is in a nice location and has to pay $5000 a month in rent because he wants to be close so people can make his class. Thats one of your problems, right? The other places are to far away?

When I taught at the YMCA my prices were cheaper. My over head was less but I could only teach a few times a week when they told me to. I could not put mats on the floor because it was in an aerobics room. You can see why there would be a difference in price. Right?

So, people dont want to make the investment of time to drive to the cheap place but they dont want to make the investment of $$ to go to the place that is close.

Nothing against you ANT 101 but this thread struck a nerve.

Im just blowing off steam and probably will not post for another 6 months.

[brothernumber9]

agreed mantid1,

In addition someone who likes what they see, is interested, and has stated that they wish to "master" an art, has to question their own commitment if they won't consider an agreement for only one year. There is no way to become proficient in any CMA within only one year from start. Especially if someone professes a statement such as mastering an art.

Furthermore, I imagine it can be frustrating for teachers to accept someone as a student and invest their time and teaching in them only to have them bail after a short period and literally waste the time and effort and money from both sides, and have to take the risk of doing it all over again with another individual. I understand in general that alot of schools have low retentions after a year or so and especially for professionally operated schools it is part of the game. Before joining both parties should be aware of what is expected or assumed before entering itno an agreement, particularly in traditional CMA schools.

[Three Harmonies]

Nothing wrong with contracts, but they do not guarantee anything to either party. Mantid1 even if you did have a contract that does not mean they would pay!! People are just ****heads, unfortunately.
I am curious WTF the $175 sign up fee is all about though??
Jake

[ANT101]

Just wondering what style of Yoga you practiced. I was self-taught in Yoga by book years before I got into MA. Since then I've had formal instruction in Ashtanga, also known as Power Yoga. I need to get that back into my training.

Ok, here's the link to Tracy's Shaolin school:
http://www.shaolinassociation.com/

He offers a 6 week trial class but I believe there will be a contract if you decide you like it and want to stay. You're making it difficult by insisting on no contract.

I thought George had a one month trial but maybe it's changed. You might want to call and ask.

Either way you're going to have to sign a contract if you want to go to a reputable commercial school. If you don't want that then you're left with the guys that teach out of the back yard or a garage.

Unfortunately, as most teachers on the forum are finding out, the only way to operate a successful commercial school is to have contracts and kids after school classes.

I don't know what style it actually is. Some of the poses are, The Eagle Pose, The Cobra Pose, The half spinal pose, The Bow Pose, The Camel Pose, The Wheel Pose, The Wind Releasing Pose and the Lion Pose as well as The hard as heck, Scorpion Pose. If you know the name of that style, I'd like to know for future reference.

I don't have a problem with committing for a year or whatever. I have a problem with doing that without a free trial of some sort. Maybe Wah Lum does that and he just didn't tell me that at the time.

[ANT101]

I tried to stay out of this one but I cant take it any longer.

I have a full time school but I do not have people sign contracts.

My next school I will.

My students have stolen $500 from me just this month. They get two months behind on tuition and just leave, sticking me with the bill.

I have to pay rent so my students can have a nice place to train in. I do not work another job so I can offer my students more options for class times. This also gives me more time to train which will make the information I pass on to my students higher quality than when I had a full time job and just taught a few days a week part time.

When people join a gym they have to sign a contract just to use the facility. They dont usually teach you anything unless you pay extra for the class.

What is the problem with a Matrial arts school having "agreements"?

I know, I know you are one of the guys who wouldnt skip out on a debt. Want to hear something funny? That is what all of the people who have stuck me told me when they signed up.

What a person charges has to do with what their monthly over head is. So you cant say that $100 is over priced if the guy is in a nice location and has to pay $5000 a month in rent because he wants to be close so people can make his class. Thats one of your problems, right? The other places are to far away?

When I taught at the YMCA my prices were cheaper. My over head was less but I could only teach a few times a week when they told me to. I could not put mats on the floor because it was in an aerobics room. You can see why there would be a difference in price. Right?

So, people dont want to make the investment of time to drive to the cheap place but they dont want to make the investment of $$ to go to the place that is close.

Nothing against you ANT 101 but this thread struck a nerve.

Im just blowing off steam and probably will not post for another 6 months.

I completely understand. You have to look after business and yourself as well. I'm not against the contract alone, its the way he told me about it. I talked to him in person and he did not mention anything about a free trial. I talked to Tracy Flemings place over the phone and was told there are a free trial.

I think you should incorporate a contract. I know owing your business, you need a committment from your customers to pay the bills. I just think you should give them a little taste of the flavor before you ask for such a committment.

[ANT101]

agreed mantid1,

In addition someone who likes what they see, is interested, and has stated that they wish to "master" an art, has to question their own commitment if they won't consider an agreement for only one year. There is no way to become proficient in any CMA within only one year from start. Especially if someone professes a statement such as mastering an art.

Furthermore, I imagine it can be frustrating for teachers to accept someone as a student and invest their time and teaching in them only to have them bail after a short period and literally waste the time and effort and money from both sides, and have to take the risk of doing it all over again with another individual. I understand in general that alot of schools have low retentions after a year or so and especially for professionally operated schools it is part of the game. Before joining both parties should be aware of what is expected or assumed before entering itno an agreement, particularly in traditional CMA schools.

I'm willing to commit for a long time and have no problem with signing a contract. My problem is 1. What else does it say in that contract and 2. Why wasn't I told about a free trial or something? This is exactly how the conversation went down. Me : "Yes, I'm looking for some info and prices on joining". Him "Ok, its 175 entry fee, get your uni and stuff. 120 a month for Kung Fu and Taichi (which is what I wanted) and you have to sign a 1 year contract. Are you ready to start today?"
IMO, if theres a free trial, you throw that in there. I didn't ask since I'm not familiar with martial arts school since the last time I was in one, it was Karate and I was 12 at the time. It didn't even dawn on me to ask about a free trial because I didn't even know you needed to sign contracts. I thought it was month per month basis. I'll call them today to see if there is and I'll let everyone know for sure or not.

[ANT101]

Nothing wrong with contracts, but they do not guarantee anything to either party. Mantid1 even if you did have a contract that does not mean they would pay!! People are just ****heads, unfortunately.
I am curious WTF the $175 sign up fee is all about though??
Jake

175 is first month free, uniform, and registration fee.

Also, you can pay 125 (a little more since its direct pay) a month, month to month without signing a contract which is good. I think I'll be joining.

[brothernumber9]

I understand and agree. The hard sell was wrong. Most places in my experience and observation offer, as you said, a trial lesson or a few.

[MantisWarrior]

hey ant101 check ur pm i m sending u a pm (haha a bit repetitive)

[Three Harmonies]

As long as you are happy.
Jake

[Corwyn]

175 is first month free, uniform, and registration fee.

Also, you can pay 125 (a little more since its direct pay) a month, month to month without signing a contract which is good. I think I'll be joining.

Ant101,

From this post it sounds like you decided to try the school, but since no one else chimed in about this I thought I would make a comment about Wah Lum and few other observations.


First - re the price and contract. Yes, this is a business decision and it has nothing to do with the style or quality of the MA or instruction you will receive.

You have to accept the fact that ANY school you go to in the US is a FOR profit institution. So deal with it. Part of the decision you have to make about picking a school and style is a combination of the style (which I think in reality is the least important thing) the attitude of the instructor/school, what you are looking for and what you have to commit to. Then put the total together and make a personal choice of what you can live with.

You mentioned something about "wish I could find an old master " Sounds like you've been watching Karate Kid too much. NEWS FLASH - Yes they are out there, but I GUARRANTEE you that if you were to meet one you would have to be "tested" in character and commitment for FAR, FAR longer than 1 year to even be informed that you've met a master. So as someone pointed out already if you having such jitters about a 1 year commitment, it's kind of hard to believe that you're ready to "master" anything. As for Wah Lum watered down - WTF are you talking about?!

The founder of Wah Lum USA and the recognized Grand Master of Wah Lum is Grand Master Pui Chan. His school is in Orlando! So anyone you are learning from in Wah Lum is one step from the living authority of this style and is currently taking classes from the excepted final word of the style. Now I am not saying that this makes Wah Lum "better" but it is kind of cool and is MOST certainly far less watered down than any Kempo style you'll find.


Now that I hit you with the stick, here is the carrot.

Lets say that you sign up for this contract and decide 3-4 months in that this school or style is really just not for you. You still have not waisted your time.
Pick any style - worth anything - and in the first year you will learn pretty much exactly the same thing! Stances footwork punched - really how different do you think they really are from Kempo to Wah Lum in the first year??? Even if you switch styles, you will be that much further along.

My background, aside from the Shotokan, is that I was soccer player and mountain climber. I am new to Wah Lum - been doing it since Dec 05. But I can tell you that the emphasis my Sifu puts on low stances and the proper execution of exercises turn my legs to jelly. You will get a good work out. Learn the basics if nothing else have a far better understanding of what you want out of MA at this point of your life.


Good luck.

[ANT101]

Ant101,

From this post it sounds like you decided to try the school, but since no one else chimed in about this I thought I would make a comment about Wah Lum and few other observations.


First - re the price and contract. Yes, this is a business decision and it has nothing to do with the style or quality of the MA or instruction you will receive.

You have to accept the fact that ANY school you go to in the US is a FOR profit institution. So deal with it. Part of the decision you have to make about picking a school and style is a combination of the style (which I think in reality is the least important thing) the attitude of the instructor/school, what you are looking for and what you have to commit to. Then put the total together and make a personal choice of what you can live with.

You mentioned something about "wish I could find an old master " Sounds like you've been watching Karate Kid too much. NEWS FLASH - Yes they are out there, but I GUARRANTEE you that if you were to meet one you would have to be "tested" in character and commitment for FAR, FAR longer than 1 year to even be informed that you've met a master. So as someone pointed out already if you having such jitters about a 1 year commitment, it's kind of hard to believe that you're ready to "master" anything. As for Wah Lum watered down - WTF are you talking about?!

The founder of Wah Lum USA and the recognized Grand Master of Wah Lum is Grand Master Pui Chan. His school is in Orlando! So anyone you are learning from in Wah Lum is one step from the living authority of this style and is currently taking classes from the excepted final word of the style. Now I am not saying that this makes Wah Lum "better" but it is kind of cool and is MOST certainly far less watered down than any Kempo style you'll find.


Now that I hit you with the stick, here is the carrot.

Lets say that you sign up for this contract and decide 3-4 months in that this school or style is really just not for you. You still have not waisted your time.
Pick any style - worth anything - and in the first year you will learn pretty much exactly the same thing! Stances footwork punched - really how different do you think they really are from Kempo to Wah Lum in the first year??? Even if you switch styles, you will be that much further along.

My background, aside from the Shotokan, is that I was soccer player and mountain climber. I am new to Wah Lum - been doing it since Dec 05. But I can tell you that the emphasis my Sifu puts on low stances and the proper execution of exercises turn my legs to jelly. You will get a good work out. Learn the basics if nothing else have a far better understanding of what you want out of MA at this point of your life.


Good luck.

Appreciate the advice but you took some things way to serious. 1. The "old man master" comment was a joke. I'm sorry that I didn't mention that. 2. I don't have any jitters about committing to an year. I'm willing to commit for the rest of my life. I have the jitters about not even being offered a free trial (something almost every other school has offered). I agree with you. The instructor is more important then any certain style so why should I committ to signing a contract without even know how he conducts in class? 3. If I do decide to sign a contract and 3-4 months down the road, its not for me, then I didn't waste my time. Just a lot of money. Thats why I feel a free trial should be included before signing anything. It may not be the style that I don't like but the instructor. BTW, never said it was watered down. I just know how things become when they become mainstream, things change. I am not applying or accusing Wah Lum for that what so ever. I don't know thats why I'm asking for peoples advice on Wah Lum that are familiar with it. I don't need business advice or a lecture about how serious I am. I wouldn't be serious if I started a account on this forum just to get advice about it. If you want to help or as you say "chime in", tell me your opinion on Wah Lum as a whole and thats it.