Fight Science

[SanHeChuan]

By Ford Prefect

But they didn't. You expect the producers of an entertainment show to go out and research who would be a good representative out of the 3 trillion styles of kung fu to bring in rather than "Kung Fu" champion from the US. To the layman, this guy seemed more than qualified. I just don't see why you have your panties in a bunch over it. Who cares?

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

[The Xia]

On the KFM article, it says that Alex Huynh isn't just a Wushu champion but also a "Shaolin Dragonfist" stylist. Still, it was pretty lousy of them to do the style vs. style B.S.. In addition, a lot of their historical facts were innaccurate. However, the show did have good points to it.

[hung-le]

Ford Prefect

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................

[b]

I just don't see why you have your panties in a bunch over it. Who cares?

I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?

Give me a break, guy. The wushu guy wasn't the best choice, but he was probably all of 135 lbs soaking wet and still managed to hit 2/3 as hard as the boxer. bla bla bla.......

I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?

Well, I have practiced BJJ regularly and competed under a blackbelt from Brazil as well as training submission grappling lightly for the 5 years since I did so... I think I have a good handle on grappling and it's import in fighting.

Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....

You don't get to MacDonald's and expect filet mignon. You're complaints about "crap" are akin to somebody whining that the service at Denny's wasn't comparable to the Four Seasons. It is what it is.

Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

[hung-le]

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

my point exactly.....................

[tug]

TUG,

Where did you see "Fight science" online. Not all of us have cable, so don't hold out.

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

SHC, I apologize for the delay in response. Been away a couple days. I am not sure where I saw it online, it may have even been something like youtube or similar. Can't say for sure because it was super late night, and haven't been able to track it down since.

As for the second quote, I would tend to agree, but at the same time, I would also think that JL, as knowledgeable as he is known to be, possibly had to work within the parameters of "tv". Maybe he was only given enough merit to allow him to impart what he knows about MA until the producers took over to sensationalize the topic. Just going off what Liddell mentioned earlier.

Either way, I did enjoy the subject matter, but not so much the shock value.

[b82rez]

You know what, after I first saw the show I had the opinion that "Hey, this is an MA show on an educational channel, that's pretty cool even if the show was poorly made" but I have since changed my mind.

Doesn't matter how much time was spent on this or that style, they should have spent an even time on EVERY style WITHOUT comparing. It seemed to me that the producers spent so much money getting the dummies that they didn't have funding left to formulate a proper scientific inquiry.

IMO they did not have a panel of experts from the respective arts. They had performance artists (wushu) compared to ring fighters.

Pretty sad that the Ninja worked Plum Flower poles better than the kung fu guy.

Why did they not discuss the differnces in art philosophy to help understand why the fighting styles are different?

The list can go on and on...

The "Science" in the title is what warrents criticism of the show. It was NOT scientific and it did not represent the styles well.

They NEED to air their documentary on Shaolin Kung Fu to make up for this BS!

[Ford Prefect]

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................

What a radicle use of elipses!

I take it that means you're leaving........................................


I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?

Right. I responded to your post where you had your panties all in a bunch... (I love elipses) or have you forgotten this?


I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?

Hmmm... Let's see:

Quoted from the original post of YOURS that I responded to:

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

Do you really forget how this all started?


Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

When you asked if I had been living in the cave because I wasn't concerned about there lack of grappling in the show. Obviously implying that I didn't coprehend the importance of grappling/Gracies on the MA scene.


Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....

Either that or it doesn't bother me at all because I understand the show's premise.



Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

Ahh yes, the not so eloquent bow out.

Uh.. dude... Uh... this is a discussion forum dude... I'm like... uh... discussing the show.

Extreme sarcasm like:

o what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?

they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......

Is, imo, having one's panties in a bunch.

[Ford Prefect]

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

If you honestly believe that Lew had total creative control of the show and the cast, you are seriously deluded. His ideas for a kung fu rep could have easily been shot down by execs who think competitive titles are more reputable than somebody who has none. There is also a distinct possible that this wushu guy isn't his top choice and he was turned down by various other kung fu people. It's not like they showed up at these people's doors with court orders.

[hung-le]

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................

What a radicle use of elipses!

I take it that means you're leaving........................................


I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?

Right. I responded to your post where you had your panties all in a bunch... (I love elipses) or have you forgotten this?


I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?

Hmmm... Let's see:

Quoted from the original post of YOURS that I responded to:

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

Do you really forget how this all started?


Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

When you asked if I had been living in the cave because I wasn't concerned about there lack of grappling in the show. Obviously implying that I didn't coprehend the importance of grappling/Gracies on the MA scene.


Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....

Either that or it doesn't bother me at all because I understand the show's premise.



Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

Ahh yes, the not so eloquent bow out.

Uh.. dude... Uh... this is a discussion forum dude... I'm like... uh... discussing the show.

Extreme sarcasm like:

o what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?

they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......

Is, imo, having one's panties in a bunch.

A Bow out? So u even admit that u are trying to have an arguement! Yet, once again this is you trying to have a flame war..... your flinging mud...but I'm not going down to the mud hole and this ticks u off!

( I love it)

Same as before......"Don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own....."

let's add...(then try even harder to have a flame war beacuse you ego was brused.....) to that last statment.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............(how's that for ya??????????????????????????

And one more time since u failed to read it the first time. (because u obviously were to busy thinking u can win a flame war that u are not going going to get) .......................Go have a flame war with someone else...............

[Aramus]

No I'm not disappointed in the TV show I'm disappointed by the typically responses by some of the jealous, prejudice, whinny little (in mind) people. The show was 2 hours of TV time nearer to 1.2 hours of actual time. You cannot explain every art, every detail for everyone. That’s too boring for the general public, eats up too much time. If you watched it, which a few folks didn’t, but felt compelled to condemn it before it started (everyone can now write off your opinion as you are biased from the beginning), you would have seen what they were trying to do. Get stats. If you watched it you saw there were gaps in the show…seems like they had more footage and moved on. There is a time constraint, time is money. As far as hitting power, yes mass matters. That was plainly stated to begin with. The boxer hit hard. I saw some strange comment that “I know someone that hits harder.” Really? Who and please be so kind to go ahead in post the results. I’m sure Mike Tyson hit really hard before going to jail. But they were judging a small sampling of artist. It would be great to see more, as the article indicated…check out same arts with different sized people, check out different arts. Clearly there can be more done. I’m not so sure that the producers should even give it a chance as a whole bunch of folks here didn’t even bother to give it a chance… WOW, a chance to show what can be done and part of community just condemns it…the next time opportunity comes around…<enough rant>

The show was entertaining, had cool effects, tried to explain many concepts in a small period of time. They declared the Ninja as the ultimate b/c of his varied abilities, no need for the bigger mass to do massive damage, ability to balance, unassuming defense, and overall abilities. Not b/c he could balance the best. <apparently rant not over> Personally, I don’t see it that way but I get an opinion two. They guy was humble…just trying to add personality. He worked hard for what he has as did they all. They should be happy with what they were able to do. If you get a chance and several folks haven’t spoiled it for you, check out the show when it repeats.

[The Xia]

They were perpetuating the style vs. style garbage.

When all the smoke was settled, the show had it's positive and it's negative.

[Aramus]

At first that is what it comes down to, compare and contrast...
I'm not threated by the results...yes there always someone faster or hits harder...move quicker...kick better, has better timing...one show doesn't prove it, one set of results doesn't prove it. It opens up a door for more...that was key.
Wouldn't it be cool to see more? More people, more tests...but is that fun to watch...
It really only proved that this guy who is from this art does this better.
Still cool to see the results..
Thanks.

[The Xia]

The experiments were interesting to watch. My main points of contention are the style vs. style B.S. and innaccurate history.

On the punching thing-Yeah the boxer hit harder. It wasn't because boxing has greater punching power then the other styles. It was because that guy had better punching power then the other stylists. It was also about the punches they chose to use. The kick thing was basically the same situation. Plus, the victor pulled the dummy into him and used his knee, not a kick.

[Aramus]

I think they did the competition for a few reasons, it is interesting and gets people to think. Side note, that is the biggest TKD guy I've seen.

What it showed me is that if you train hard you can increase your hitting power. Yes the Wushu guy didn't hit as hard as the other but he did hit very hard. Put that to a softer target and look what happens. That is respectable and dangerous.

I still give Boxing its due, they hit hard and well with their hands. They train for real contact, impact, timing, and combos. A boxer is dangerous. It is a solid sport (that guarantees brain dmg ). That guy was big, strong, proven and could hit. The test confirmed that. It also showed that if you hit hard enough, under good conditions, yes, you can knock someone out with one punch (I learned the two combo punch used to knock someone out...also proven through real boxing).

I have to agree, grabbing and holding then hitting gives you an overall edge with power. Just the same, the test showed that the artists kicked hard.

I believe that relating the history is always hard...some of the martial artists got it wrong...there is so much misinformation out there... it is tough.

I would like to try out the experiements with a bunch of people, regular joes, more boxers, more artists, etc.

[mattb]

It was good to see they finally put the age old question of "Can a person be knocked out with one hit?" to rest. I never thought a 1 hit knockout was possible until getting confirmation from that show