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I didn't think Bruce taught White Crane to any "white eyes." I was under the impression that he only taught Wing Chun when he first got here. Interesting theory, but I'm now under the impression that it could've had something to do with the Japanese since, more than any other group of martial artists, Bruce was constantly putting them down.
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
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This sounds like the Old West where everyone wanted to slap leather with the top gun so they could rule the nest. The only difference is that I've never heard of so many people frothing at the mouth over a dead man. Unless Bruce is cloned no one is ever going to get a shot at him.Originally Posted by Iron Buda
Wouldn't it make more sense to go after living, breathing flesh and blood top guns?
Figure Eight
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This post is hillarious hahahaha, Bruce and white crane plus those old stories based on nothing around his sudden death.
Thanks for the laugh man.
Last edited by Hishaam; 12-08-2006 at 08:27 AM.
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This is a thread about Bruce Lee isn't it? So what if people criticize, speculate, and/or make up stories about him. Don't worry, if he were still alive I would still WHAAAA!! ATAAAH!! OOOOH!!Wouldn't it make more sense to go after living, breathing flesh and blood top guns?his ass straight to dogtown.
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
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You know what bugs me about Game of Death? It's how Bruce just lets his two buddies get the crap beaten out of them by that Korean guy while he just watches with this look like he wants to say, "see, you guys suck." Then, when he inexplicably starts landing round houses (when the other guys kept getting their feet caught every time), he looks back at them like, "ha!, see how bad-ass I am, you suck."
God, what a ego-maniac
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
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Oi. Let's keep the ego completely out of the thread.
Either we move back towards the martial arts discussion (the development/state of JKD and MMA), or the thread needs to be locked.
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"Who dies first," he mumbled through smashed and bloody lips.
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On Bruce Lee’s Abilities:
"If you're talking about combat, I mean, as it REALLY is – with NO rules -- well then, baby you'd better train EVERY part of your body!" (-- Bruce Lee: The Lost Interview)
Pages115-123 of the published version of Bruce Lee’s, “The Tao of Jeet Kune Do,” over 90% of this chapter on Grappling, done in his own hand, could pass for a UFC training manual! The man was very familiar with grappling! Is it any wonder that, two years ago, former manager of both Chuck Lidell and Tito Ortiz, and now president of the UFC, and producer of “The Ultimate Fighter,” Dana White, publicly acknowledged Lee's apparent abilities, ending by even calling Lee the father of modern mixed martial arts:
What does White know? Some of his credential’s: "I boxed in the amateurs before getting into submission fighting and got hooked. Actually, I owned three boxing gyms in Vegas. I trained and managed fighters and had a sports management company. One day I met Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell, who I started representing, and I got into this huge contract negotiation with Bob Meyerwitz, the former owner of Tito Ortiz’s contract….It’s a little tough for the traditional martial artists to swallow, because one system doesn’t do it. You’ve got to cross-train in many different systems. Actually, the father of mixed martial arts, if you will, was Bruce Lee. If you look at the way Bruce Lee trained, the way he fought, and many of the things he wrote, he said the perfect style was no style. You take a little something from everything. You take the good things from every different discipline, use what works, and you throw the rest away." http://www.knucklepit.com/mixed-mart...dana_white.htm
Legendary boxers, Sugar Ray Leonard and Hector Camacho, and a host of others, have all noted, on separate occasions, that they were absolutely in awe of Lee's obvious fighting skills. From watching what - actual Bruce Lee fight footage? I doubt it. But from observing his speed, timing, understanding of a fight, etc., as demonstrated in his films and film clips of him in action. Remember, these guys are masters at detecting their opponent's strengths, weaknesses, timing, strategy, and so on, during pre-fight analysis of films of their opponent’s movements. They can read skill from movement!
“Alongside Muhammad Ali, he [Lee] is cited as a major influence by many K-1 and MMA champions: Bas Rutten, Jose "Pele" Landi-Jons, Wanderlei Silva, Emilianenko Fedor, Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto, Rob Kaman, Ramon Dekkers, Frank Shamrock, Murilo and Mauricio Rua, Jerome Le Banner, Carlos Newton, Remy Bonjasky, Jeremy Horn, David Loiseau and Tito Ortiz among others. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000045/bio
World renowned MMA/JKD Trainer, and former Bruce Lee student, Larry Hartsell: My first martial art, in 1958 or 1959, was judo. At the same time, I was a high-school wrestler in the light-heavyweight class. From 1967 to 1970, I studied with Bruce [Lee] and Dan [Inosanto] and taught at Ed Parker’s.
Bruce had adopted boxing by then. He [mixed] it with Wing Chun Kung Fu. Also, there were grappling techniques he picked up from Gene LeBell and some stuff from Wally Jay’s small circle jujutsu, which he added to Jeet Kune Do.
Before his death [1973], he had added 33 grappling moves to the Jeet Kune Do concept. He got those from Wally Jay, Gene LeBell and Hayward Nishioka. And he had some chin-na [Chinese close combat skills used to subdue an enemy, and have total control not only of a part of his body but also of his entire body, before finally tying him up , http://www.shaolin.nl/chinna.html>]. and silat [an ancient, vicious, real world South East Asian – Indonesian/Malaysian Knife and Submission fighting system - <http://www.silatlincah.inuk.com/>]. He would mix the arts. He would enter to trapping and take down into a submission. If you read Tao of Jeet Kune Do, you’ll see those grappling [techniques]. http://www.jkdassoc.com/QABlackBeltMag.html
"He (Bruce) was just getting into grappling at that time”(1967) states Larry "and although he (Bruce) himself stated he wasn't very good at it, someone forgot to tell the people he worked out with. He could knock you down, tie you up and choke you out just like you and I would wipe our faces."
http://www.martialarm.com/martial-ar...ordinaire.html
By the way, as someone else recntly pointed out, all Bruce Lee's movies contain some form of grappling in them! How do the last battle in both "Return of the Dragon," (w/ Chuck Noriss) and "Game of Death," (w/Kareem Abdul Jabbar) end?
Joint locking/breaking and grappling choke holds.
The man who even once predicted that one day, something along the lines of today's MMA would be the norm, was simply ahead of his time.
Hey, why don't we start a "trash Miyamoto Mushashi" forum. I mean, he was also supposedly unbeatable, and we're lucky to have even a drawing of him, yet we buy it! Or how about Sun Tzu and his Art of War - another guy who apparently did not leave any video footage of his great battles behind! Worse, neither of these supposedly amazing individuals and astounding strategists (all borrowed), even to this day (!) - all borrowed has one witness alive today who can attest to their great mastery, as Lee does!
The reality is simply that if a Mushashi or a Tzu, or any other "legend" were alive today, they would have their detractors today too. Ali did and still does, for example! So that in the end, Bruce Lee bashing or admiration has nothing to do with "real proof." But with difference of opinion taken as truth. For me, my reality is that he was one incredible individual. You want to believe otherwise, then have at it...
Keep flowing, keep blasting, keep the peace... JKDan
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Jun Fan Gung Fu has 33 training progression drills that all end with a submission on the ground. Each follows a similar format: Enter with strikes into trapping into a takedown into a submission.
Most "JKD" Groups call these 'Basic Trapping Drills' or just lob it into the Jun Fan portion of the cirriculum. Something or other.
Dan Inosanto has a great Jun fan instructional series. he uses Erik Paulson and Rick Young as his dummys. They line out the entire "basic" Jun Fan cirriculum.
strike!
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Bravo man, bravo...i dont think i could have put it any better myself, (actually i know i couldnt) so im glad you are there to so elequently put my thoughts into words.
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
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Kickin' it
I just want to point out that Bruce Lee did not die of an "asprin."
He took some TCM that would cause a similar effect as asprin in the eyes of westerners.
Just something to think on. My personal theory, being as his brain was charted as deteriorating with brainscans taken before his death, was that he was destroying his own brain over a long-term period. I think it was pushing himself past a plateau too fast, may have projected too much qi through meridians in the brain.
As for people saying that Bruce Lee had six months of training, etc.
Come on! We already know too much about him to be swayed by BS stories.
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Like many JKD guys, he would be a black belt in BJJ by now- probably after getting dominated by someone with BJJ training, same as a lot of other JKD guys.
While he may have included it in his movies (probably Gene Lebell’s influence), the grapping in JKD was light years behind Judo, BJJ, Sambo, and wrestling. Other than Hartzell, no one in JKD knew much about grappling back then, and even Harztell was pretty limited in terms of submisisons. JKD included very little training in grappling. Sparring pretty much stopped as soon as things went to the ground.
A very, very small portion of the TJKD showed grappling diagrams. An even smaller portion of the JKD training curriculum included grappling and that was extremely rudimentary and not practiced in anything close to an alive manner.If you read Tao of Jeet Kune Do, you’ll see those grappling [techniques].
Last edited by Knifefighter; 01-20-2007 at 07:21 PM.
Kickin' it
Wow, that was pretty much total bull.
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Really? What makes you think that?
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Dan Inosanto is a BJJ black belt now, isnt' he?
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Dan Inosanto is not Bruce Lee.
"Do not be overly concerned with defending that first fist... it may be what comes next that needs your attention."
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