Best Bagua vid i have EVER seen.

[B-Rad]

Thanks TWS, good stuff! I've been trying to re-find that video for awhile now. BT allways had the best Bagua clips on his site

[The Willow Sword]

i just stumbled across this and it really made me sad because i dont have this kind of bagua under my belt. what i do have is very mediocre at best. seeing this was a definite spirit uplifter for me. and it also encourages me to keep practicing and training well in to my elder years. i wanna move and be supple and flowing just like this man is at 93. i will not become a nursing home victim.

i see myself fading away in the forest somewhere with long white hair and a beard. its how i want to leave this world.

As Ever,TWS

[cjurakpt]

i wanna move and be supple and flowing just like this man is at 93. i will not become a nursing home victim.

if more people thought that way, I'd be a huge paradigm shift for this country; still, I agree wholeheartedly - in fact, my personal vision is to live (not survive) to be 108: 6 x 18 years (it seems my life undergos major foundaional shifts every 18 years: two down, four ta go...) - well, it's a working model at any rate...

[The Willow Sword]

we gotta retain that essence or else we will go blind and get hairy palms and die very very young


TWS

[woliveri]

Well, I'm just a Bagua beginner and I'm taught to lift the foot so the sole is flat and set it down by the toe, gripping the ground with the toes. If it's done right it's **** hard and works muscles in the foot, calf that you thought you never had.

As nice as this looks it appears the stepping has gone out the window. He looks like he's having a walk in the park with his heel first walking.

More experienced BG dudes, am I wrong?

[David Jamieson]

hee hee, i liked the knife work later in the flick.

woliveri, I am curious as to how you think for a moment that he is wrong and what you do is right.
Consider that perhaps what you are doing is incorrect and what he is doing is correct? Or neither.

It is my experience that some circle walking slides into the grip toe first, while other circle walk is heel/toe and yet other styles emphasize total weight throughout the foot on each step (flat footed more or less).

Now baguas not my thing, but I would be very wary of criticising the form of someone who has been practicing for 2x as long as most of our teachers have even been taking air into their lungs.

food for thought and no personal jab intended.

[lunghushan]

Well, I'm just a Bagua beginner and I'm taught to lift the foot so the sole is flat and set it down by the toe, gripping the ground with the toes. If it's done right it's **** hard and works muscles in the foot, calf that you thought you never had.

As nice as this looks it appears the stepping has gone out the window. He looks like he's having a walk in the park with his heel first walking.

More experienced BG dudes, am I wrong?

He definitely seems to be doing it fast and wushu like and the stepping is more like Sun ZhiZhun http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd3/coll_BGsunzhijun.htm (only much higher).

http://www.plumpub.com/images/VCD4/vcd1369.jpg

Not sure if you should say it's right or wrong. That's how they do it in their lineage evidently, or at least for show.

Plus, nobody expects old guys to do their forms right anyway.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Plus, nobody expects old guys to do their forms right anyway.

AARRRGGHHHHHH...... First, old is a state of mind, and.. that guy has a pretty good state of mind.. Second, most "old guys" that have been at this for decades have gone beyond the confines of forms, they have learned the lessons of the forms.. Some of these older guys have forgot more than most of us "know".. and Third, now what was it? i know there was a third thing.. hmmmm... oh well, remember the first 2, i'm gonna take a nap now, maybe it'll jog my memory..

Be well...

[lunghushan]

Greetings..


AARRRGGHHHHHH...... First, old is a state of mind, and.. that guy has a pretty good state of mind.. Second, most "old guys" that have been at this for decades have gone beyond the confines of forms, they have learned the lessons of the forms.. Some of these older guys have forgot more than most of us "know".. and Third, now what was it? i know there was a third thing.. hmmmm... oh well, remember the first 2, i'm gonna take a nap now, maybe it'll jog my memory..

Be well...

It's not just memory ... it's the physical thing. As people get older they can't go into lower stances, lower basin and all that. It's a rare person who can do that even at 60-70, let alone 93!!!

A lot of people learned from very old people, who had hunched backs, couldn't go low into stances, couldn't keep their alignment correct, and as a result we have a lot of very bad martial arts.

You do taiji, Bob, right? So where are the old guys doing the stomps and jumps? Most of that from Chen isn't even in the taiji anymore, let alone finding some old guy doing it. How many old people in the park do snake creeps down with their butt to their foot? Not many, right?

[The Willow Sword]

As nice as this looks it appears the stepping has gone out the window. He looks like he's having a walk in the park with his heel first walking.

More experienced BG dudes, am I wrong?

Uhh Yes you are


i watched that vid a few times over focusing on several points and from my experience(which is a little more than beginner) i have concluded that there is nothing wrong with the stepping of this elder. Yes he seems to be walking in the park,HOWEVER, he has been doing these forms for decades and what elder who has done that for so long doesnt "walk in the park ? His walking in the park looks very solid to me. I noticed times when his stepping is slightly heel to toe and other points where his foot lands flat(in his twists and turns) but the rooting is solid in my opinion.
Peace,TWS

[lunghushan]

This guy really isn't bad at all, especially for his age. There's another video of some 90+ year old guy doing a dao form and that guy is doing it much more heel-toe stepping.

But heel-toe stepping isn't necessarily wrong for bagua. Some Yin lineages do heel to toe stepping.

In tight turns you don't really want to be doing flat stepping anyway because you put a lot of torque on your knees.

Bottom line is there isn't just one type of baguazhang. There isn't just one type of stepping. Just because somebody isn't doing what you do, doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

You do taiji, Bob, right? So where are the old guys doing the stomps and jumps? Most of that from Chen isn't even in the taiji anymore, let alone finding some old guy doing it. How many old people in the park do snake creeps down with their butt to their foot? Not many, right?

I'm not sure where you are, but.. visit Central Florida sometime, you will be quite surprised at the quality and quantity of good Taiji.. There are numerous local Taiji players and teachers that are exceptional.. When's the last time you saw Snake Creeps Down or Low Single Whip in a fight? it is a conditioning posture, the physics and stress on the ligaments are counter productive (yet, i still do them.. shame on me, i know better).. maximum power and efficiency degrades after the pelvis drops below the knee.. hence the saying, "thighs parallel to ground".. now, you can get quite low and still keep the thighs parallel, but it's tricky..

Old Yang has spirals, shuffles, FaJing, and subtle stomps.. but, it's not the appearance of someone's Taiji that kicks your butt, it's their understanding of it..

Be well..

[lunghushan]

Greetings..

I'm not sure where you are, but.. visit Central Florida sometime, you will be quite surprised at the quality and quantity of good Taiji.. There are numerous local Taiji players and teachers that are exceptional.. When's the last time you saw Snake Creeps Down or Low Single Whip in a fight? it is a conditioning posture, the physics and stress on the ligaments are counter productive (yet, i still do them.. shame on me, i know better).. maximum power and efficiency degrades after the pelvis drops below the knee.. hence the saying, "thighs parallel to ground".. now, you can get quite low and still keep the thighs parallel, but it's tricky..

Old Yang has spirals, shuffles, FaJing, and subtle stomps.. but, it's not the appearance of someone's Taiji that kicks your butt, it's their understanding of it..

Be well..

Yes, you shouldn't drop the pelvis below the knee. I guess the question is, is doing the taiji form correctly doing it with the conditioning aspect in mind? Or are you only interested in applications? Guess it depends upon your emphasis.

Anyway, I'm not a very good taiji player, so it doesn't matter to me.

It was just kindof interesting when I went to the local Yang place and was showing a guy snake creeps down just to explain an application, and he remarked on how 'low' I was ... and my butt was a full foot above my heel.

BTW I don't think you need to go that low, it's just that it was explained to me that the form should be done low.

[woliveri]

Well guys, that's why I asked.

I can say this, my teacher of over 30 years practice and his friend again of over 30 years practice don't forget the basics when they start to walk a little faster.

Look, I think it's fantastic that the guy's this old and that fluid/flexible. However, I've been in Shanghai for the last 6 months and I have seen some old people do some stuff that most people half their age can't do.

People here in China work out every day. Every day for at least an hour or more. With our busy schedules in the west it's no wonder we don't see more of this kind of flexibilty and fluidness. It's a choice.

But from my point of view he still seems to be walking incorrectly.

How about Count if he's out there still. Have any comments?

[lunghushan]

But from my point of view he still seems to be walking incorrectly.

How about Count if he's out there still. Have any comments?

??? And you are of his lineage? What's your lineage, Cheng style? Yin style? Which Cheng style? Which Yin style? Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang? ???

How can you say he's doing it wrong unless you're in his lineage and know how his teachers taught him, and how they were taught, etc.?

You realize there's not one way of stepping in 'baguazhang'. There's not even one martial art called 'baguazhang'. Muddy wade stepping is NOT done in all baguazhang.