The Truth About Chan Tai Sam

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I remember when this came up on the other thread. And yes, there was a friendly outcome.

I do remember being there as well, when the phone call was made even though I didn't hear it personally. However, I don't recall that is was Sifu Kwong Man-Fong who did any mud-slinging himself. To be fair, I was under the impression that it was a student of his who was spouting off at the mouth, my Sifu and his Sifu talked, ...everthing was settled.

It was not an issue of either Sifu 'backing down' or arguing with each other. I think it was a misunderstanding and David is correct in stating that KMF's people were told not to talk badly about CTS or his students. CTS didn't 'order' KMF to do this, they talked and as I understand it was settled amicably between them.

What no one is bringing up here is this; The reason why this happened in the first place - Our Bok Mei forms are different from KMF's forms. This is where the controversy started. A KMF guy said that SIFU Chan Tai-San's Bok Mei is not 'real.' (Whatever that means).

This about the same time which I was getting gas at a gas station one day, and some KMF student saw my school shirt (which had my SIFU's name on it) and started yelling at my from 75 feet away, how my (and my Sifu's) Bok Mei was crap! As I walked towards him to find out what the hell he was talking about, he got in his car and sped away. I had two people with me who witnessed the event; David Schwartz and Raphael Gomez. It was bizarre and I didn't think anything of it. Until a short time later when I arrived one day at my Sifu's house and started hearing all the hub bub.

Sifu Chan studied very little with CLC, but was often at his school and practiced with his good friend, a senior student of CLC. This was back in 30's, way before KMF was born (I believe). CLC had changed his forms since then which is why what we do, is different from what they do. Not too much different, but different all the same.

KMF told his students this info as well, and then told him the CTS's Bok Mei was 'real' just different. End of discussion.

NO Drama, just a phone call to straighten something out, which ended amicably.
Let's stay on the same track, okay?

[lkfmdc]

David,

Why do you feel the need to rehash this?

Dear lord, did you even read this thread? I didn't name Sifu Kwong until "spite" brought his name up...

but, despite any group hugs or "let's all just get along" feeling now, I was there when the original "mis understanding" happened.

I'm sorry, I hate PC, I hate re-writing history and I hate fakeness. Sifu Kwong did say some stuff, he got called on it, and he changed his tune. That's what happened. Students later on, YEARS later on, can try and gloss it over, make it seem like a misunderstanding, etc... but that's what happened.

And you know what? It should be such a big deal.... hate to break it to you guys, but very few people wanted to deal with an angry Chan Tai San. Remember, he actually KILLED people... which is why "Mark" aka "Shaolin Flatulance" post was so silly.... poorly educated country farmer, rude and crass, CTS certainly was, but as a fighter, he was the real deal, and ALL of Chinatown knew that

[lkfmdc]

Well, since Mike brought it up, Sifu Kwong seemed to have a lot of students who like to start trouble. When we first started teaching, one of Sifu Kwong's American students called me and said he wanted to come down and tell Chan Tai San that his Bak Mei was fake

I told him I'd be happy to translate, but would take no responsibility for what Chan Tai San might do to him. The retarded guy then asked me what I meant and I told him in all probability Chan Tai San would smack the heck out of him... he suddenly declined to come down and share his thoughts with Sifu Chan

Kung Fu people don't really speak English, so no one is really sure what "real" means?

[David Jamieson]

This thread should be deleted.
It's obviously a troll post.

[lkfmdc]

This is in the Chan Tai San stories thread

"After studying Lama Pai, Sifu Chan met Chan Dik-Seung, the #2 student of Bak Mei techer Cheung Lai Chung (I looked it up, old issue of IKF with sifu's story, Oct 1996). Cheung Lai Chung was getting on in years, but he visited from time to time.

One problem was that Cheung Lai Chung had a policy of not letting people who had already studiend other methods learning Bak Mei. He did not like Sifu Chan studying, and Sifu Chan didn't help matters!

One day, Cheung Lai Chung agreed to show Chan Tai San a movement. Sifu Chan said he was happy to feel the energy in his hands and arms, but kept thinking the technique he was showing wouldn't work... So Sifu chan tried to grab his arm and kick him in the leg...

Cheung Lai Chugn easily avoided the attack, and was naturally upset. He his Chan Tai San back and told him he had no respect. Even as an older man, Sifu Chan said he had real speed and power"

This would mean it was in the mid 1940's.... Where was Kwong Man Fong in the mide 1940's??

[spite1]

LOL ross wins again!
#1 undisputed internet warrior.

ya know I didn't respect you before this thread, but now I truly realize how hardcore you are.

see you soon...

[lkfmdc]

LOL ross wins again!
#1 undisputed internet warrior.

ya know I didn't respect you before this thread, but now I truly realize how hardcore you are.

see you soon...

See me soon? Are you challenging me? I guess you haven't realized, but I am anything but an "internet" warrior. I run a fighting gym. I train fighters...

I'm sorry that we all don't bow down to the Church of Kwong Man Fong (tm).... Chan Tai San trained with Cheung Lai Chung probably 10 years before Kwong did... get over it....

[Hai_To]

This thread should be deleted.
It's obviously a troll post.

The original post...yes. David Ross's defamation of Sifu Kwong Man Fong...no.

Well, since Mike brought it up, Sifu Kwong seemed to have a lot of students who like to start trouble.

I believe that is called projection.

Dear lord, did you even read this thread? I didn't name Sifu Kwong until "spite" brought his name up...

Yes, though for Sifu Kwong Man Fong's students, the implication was clear. Did you really expect someone not to respond? You started this unpleasantness.

Sifu Kwong did say some stuff, he got called on it, and he changed his tune.

I was there when Sifu Chan made the phone call, in fact I dialed the number for him as he had forgot his reading glasses. I then sat and listened to the whole conversation....

However, I don't recall that is was Sifu Kwong Man-Fong who did any mud-slinging himself. To be fair, I was under the impression that it was a student of his who was spouting off at the mouth, my Sifu and his Sifu talked, ...everthing was settled.

So, which is true? Did Sifu Kwong Man Fong "say some stuff" or did one of his students? You were both there, right? As was Kenny Chin, though his post clearly implies that he was alone with Sifu Chan. He stated that he dialed the number for Sifu Chan, whereas David states the he dialed the number. Which is true?

NO Drama, just a phone call to straighten something out, which ended amicably.
Let's stay on the same track, okay?

I thought you and I were on the same track. David seems to be on a different one.

This would mean it was in the mid 1940's.... Where was Kwong Man Fong in the mide 1940's??

Are you disputing Sifu Kwong Man Fong's lineage? If so, please state so openly. If not, stop trying to play coy. Your own Sifu stated that Kwong Man Fong was Cheung Lai Chun's todei. What is the point of your comment?

[lkfmdc]

You started this unpleasantness.

Sorry, I know I'm not a member of the "Church of Kwong Man Fong" (tm) but that doesn't change the fact that Sifu Kwong and his students "started the unpleasantness"

How do you think the students got the idea that Sifu Chan's Bak Mei was "fake"? Did they come up with that idea all on their own? Or was it because Sifu Kwong was saying he was the only real Bak Mei sifu in NYC?

Are you disputing Sifu Kwong Man Fong's lineage? If so, please state so openly. If not, stop trying to play coy. Your own Sifu stated that Kwong Man Fong was Cheung Lai Chun's todei. What is the point of your comment?

Did you fail logic 101? Sifu Chan never said that Kwong's Bak Mei wasn't real. Sifu Kwong on the other hand said Sifu Chan's wasn't... so the only issue is, was CTS's Bak Mei "real"

Let's see, CTS studied with Cheung Lai Chung. He studied with him 10 years before Kwong did. So, that would make CTS Bak Mei real... which is why Kwong cut the nonsense...

I'm sorry if you can't follow that, but it's basic logic

[lkfmdc]

as fun as this has been and all, I've got to run. Have to take some students to do some full contact fighting, with our fake kung fu

if you want to continue this later, that's fine with me

[Hai_To]

I was under the impression that Chan Tai San studied with Chan Dik-Seung.

Did you fail logic 101? Sifu Chan never said that Kwong's Bak Mei wasn't real. Sifu Kwong on the other hand said Sifu Chan's wasn't... so the only issue is, was CTS's Bak Mei "real"

Straw man: I wasn't referring to Sifu Chan Tai San stating or implying that Sifu Kwong Man Fong wasn't real. I was referring to your comments.

[cjurakpt]

what happened to Shaolin Blunder? I was expecting at least a few good back and forth posts with the guy...nuts

[lkfmdc]

I was under the impression that Chan Tai San studied with Chan Dik-Seung.

I think my post and the interview were pretty clear, Chan Tai San studied with both Chan Dik-Seug and Cheung Lai Chung. Less with Cheung, but with him none the less. So Chan Tai San's Bak Mei isn't "fake"... It remains quite an interesting point, Sifu Chan never said a certain person's version wasn't "real" etc yet some others found it necesssary to speak badly about him...

My other comment was equally clear, how could Kwong call Chan Tai San "fake" when Chan Tai San was doing Bak Mei 10 years before Kwong was?? It's just a simple observation...

[Green Cloud]

Wow has this thread digressed what happened to Lama Vrs. Miew Jow Miao is all I have to say.

[shabinko]

NYC Lama Pose is under fire... Funny funny

Hey Hai To,
Hope your in for a long haul coz you know theese guys don't let up.
Theyr'e always right you see. And also Chan Tai Scam was the Be-all End-all of CMA.