Chan Hon Chung

[The Xia]

It looks like TenTigers is going to be right. Now for the Choy Lee Fut.

[PM]

candidly, to avoid any useless who-learned-from-who flamewar, just posting an info concerning Lam Jou - Gang Dakhoi relationship

Gang Dakhoi, grandmaster of daai sing pek gwa mun, was a best friend and sworn brother of my Grandmaster Lam Jou, one of the top masters of its time. these two plus Leung Winghang i think (student of Lam Saiwing) got tattooed together (Chinese gim, straight sword, on the forearm). when my sigung had to leave HK to China during the second world war, Gang Dakhoi took care of his eldest son.

although they did not learn from each other, they have exchanged (learned by watching) and influenced each other a lot. in our non-Hung Kyun curriculum we have couple of originally daai sing pek gwa mun sets, like

- pek gwa broadsword (pek gwa daan dou)
- Kwan mountain straight sword (Kwanleun gim)
- sang mun straight sword (sang mun gim)
- monkey set (hau kyun) - no more taught

some sources claim that money stick (hau ji gwan, hang je paang) is also form daai sing pek gwa, but i doubt it.

some of the two man sets choreographed by grandmaster Lam Jou, like long-handled broadsword vs. spear (daai dou deui cheung) are also originally from pek gwa. pek gwa influence is also seen in tiger-crane sparring set (360 degrees sweep, sou dong geuk)

Brian sihing is right - when Grandmaster Y.C. Wong has finished his formal studies under Grandmaster Lam Jou, his sifu has send him to Gang Dakhoi to learn some pek gwa.

some interesting links

grandmaster Lam Jou, monkey set
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj06_jpg.htm

group photo, next to Lam Jou is Gang Dakhoi
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj25_jpg.htm

group photo, next to Lam Jou is Gang Dakhoi
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj45_jpg.htm

Tony Wong, one of the most senior students of Grandmaster Y.C. Wong, demonstrating pek gwa sets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTuGLxjTbqA

[PM]

It looks like TenTigers is going to be right. Now for the Choy Lee Fut.

as for CLF influence, all the leopard techniques (paau ying) in our systems are from CLF - you have chaap cheui, gwa cheui and sau cheui

also, if we look at 10 CLF seed techniques (kam, na, gwa, sau, chaap, paau, kap, biu, ding, jong), we have them all in Hung Kyun.

anyway, it does not say Hung Kyun = CLF; Hung Kyun fo jin cheui, ping cheui, ngau gok cheui and tung tin choi (jab, cross, hook and uppercut) do not make Hung kyun to be same thing as western boxing.

CLF influence is seen in Lau family lineage (Grandmaster Lau Jaam studied CLF prior to Hung Kyun), especially in their hoi jong/gin lai, ie. salute. speaking of Lau family, we should not forget Grandmaster Lau Galeung and his amazing monkey style, which imho does not come form Gang Dakhoi (Franky Lau will add more precise info i hope)

all the best

[Lama Pai Sifu]

as for CLF influence, all the leopard techniques (paau ying) in our systems are from CLF - you have chaap cheui, gwa cheui and sau cheui

also, if we look at 10 CLF seed techniques (kam, na, gwa, sau, chaap, paau, kap, biu, ding, jong), we have them all in Hung Kyun.

anyway, it does not say Hung Kyun = CLF; Hung Kyun fo jin cheui, ping cheui, ngau gok cheui and tung tin choi (jab, cross, hook and uppercut) do not make Hung kyun to be same thing as western boxing.

CLF influence is seen in Lau family lineage (Grandmaster Lau Jaam studied CLF prior to Hung Kyun), especially in their hoi jong/gin lai, ie. salute. speaking of Lau family, we should not forget Grandmaster Lau Galeung and his amazing monkey style, which imho does not come form Gang Dakhoi (Franky Lau will add more precise info i hope)

all the best

Lau Ga Leung had learned some monkey style of Chan Sau Chungs/Gaan Duk Hoi lineage when he was younger. I don't remember if he trained a bit with Chan Sau Chung, but I think that is what he told me.

Lau Ga Leung took the Monkey he learned from that line, some from his father (Lau Jaam - a top student of Lam Sai Wing) and his Hung Ga and created his own monkey style for himself and for his movies.

This info that Lau had told me personally in december of 2005 in Hong Kong.

I hope this adds to your discussion.

[banditshaw]

candidly, to avoid any useless who-learned-from-who flamewar, just posting an info concerning Lam Jou - Gang Dakhoi relationship

Gang Dakhoi, grandmaster of daai sing pek gwa mun, was a best friend and sworn brother of my Grandmaster Lam Jou, one of the top masters of its time. these two plus Leung Winghang i think (student of Lam Saiwing) got tattooed together (Chinese gim, straight sword, on the forearm). when my sigung had to leave HK to China during the second world war, Gang Dakhoi took care of his eldest son.

although they did not learn from each other, they have exchanged (learned by watching) and influenced each other a lot. in our non-Hung Kyun curriculum we have couple of originally daai sing pek gwa mun sets, like

- pek gwa broadsword (pek gwa daan dou)
- Kwan mountain straight sword (Kwanleun gim)
- sang mun straight sword (sang mun gim)
- monkey set (hau kyun) - no more taught

some sources claim that money stick (hau ji gwan, hang je paang) is also form daai sing pek gwa, but i doubt it.

some of the two man sets choreographed by grandmaster Lam Jou, like long-handled broadsword vs. spear (daai dou deui cheung) are also originally from pek gwa. pek gwa influence is also seen in tiger-crane sparring set (360 degrees sweep, sou dong geuk)

Brian sihing is right - when Grandmaster Y.C. Wong has finished his formal studies under Grandmaster Lam Jou, his sifu has send him to Gang Dakhoi to learn some pek gwa.

some interesting links

grandmaster Lam Jou, monkey set
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj06_jpg.htm

group photo, next to Lam Jou is Gang Dakhoi
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj25_jpg.htm

group photo, next to Lam Jou is Gang Dakhoi
http://www.lghk.org/en/gallery/lj/pages/lj45_jpg.htm

Tony Wong, one of the most senior students of Grandmaster Y.C. Wong, demonstrating pek gwa sets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTuGLxjTbqA

Great info there PM. Thanks for sharing.

[Eddie]

Hi,
I’m no expert in the subject, but, one night, about 2 months ago, Sifu Chow Keung had me type out this very long reply about claims regarding TSPK and who learned what. Personally, I didn’t think it would be very appropriate to post the reply here, as I’m really not interested in having or causing an internet fight, or going against anything that other people say or said.

I managed to avoid posting the threat, and kinda got Sifu Chow to forget about all this. That night, sifu Chow got so worked up, he even called Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung to confirm a few things for him. This topic reminded me of what was being spoken about that night, and I thought I could just add a few things sifu Chow told me.

Lam Jou and Kan Tak Hoi were good friends. When Kan Tak Hou first came to HK, he lived with Laam Jou (or vice versa – the exact details now are escaping me). Kan Tak Hoi taught Laam Jou the Pek Gwa darn dao, and eventually it was taught to allot of schools in Hong Kong. He did say something like Laam Jou wanted to teach Kan Tak Hoi some Hung Kuen, but KTH wasn’t to interested.

One thing Sifu Chow wasn’t to sure about, was exactly where YC Wong learned his TSPK. He called CSC and asked about that, but in the end it wasn’t all to clear. Few things didn’t add up to Sifu Chow, but he did say he will look into it when he remembers about it again. Sifu Chow seem very passionate about his school (organisation) and his loyalty to his sifu / school / organisation impressed me allot.

I really don’t even know YC Wong or any of his students, so I hope I don’t seem disrespecting towards him.

[ymotion]

Pm,

You never cease to amaze me with your detailed knowledge of Hung gar. You really should write a book! Good to hear from you! Would love to see how you students have progressed if I ever get to Prague.

Brian

[PM]

Eddie: your info is correct. Gang Dakhoi was Lam Jou's senior brother, and Lam Jou has picked up a lot of from him. i never heard he would ask Gang Dakhoi to teach some Hung Kyun. thank you for your interesting info.

as for Grandmaster Y.C. Wong, he has learned from Gang Dakhoi for 100%, but just for a short time, i think about 2 years (late 1950's or beginning of 1960's). he teaches pek gwa daan dou and i think 3 pek gwa hand sets (probably originally 1 long set, divided in 3, but i am not sure of that). he never claimed to learn whole system or being an expert in pek gwa. so or so, he is one of the very few top gungfu men of today, open, humble, and his gungfu rocks, even in his age (77).

Brian: actually i wrote a book on Hung Kyun, it is finished, i just needs to be translated into English :-)

[ymotion]

PM,

Cool, email me the link when it comes out in English and I will buy a copy! BTW I PM'ed you.

[Eddie]

Sifu Chow told me he learned Hung Kuen as a kid, and if Im not mistaken, I think he said Chan Sau Chung also did hubng kuen.

[The Xia]

Some nice posts came of it.

[Ben Gash]

as for CLF influence, all the leopard techniques (paau ying) in our systems are from CLF - you have chaap cheui, gwa cheui and sau cheui

Interestingly, none of these techniques is considered leopard in CLF

[PM]

Interestingly, none of these techniques is considered leopard in CLF

:-) sau cheui is still sau cheui, chaap cheui is still chaap cheui, it does not matter if you call it leopard or not. of course i am not saying Hung kyun = CLF, but our leopard techniques really come from CLF (i double checked). also, i have learned ng leun ma and ng leun cheui long time ago (and still practice the latter one occassionaly), and have many Chinese CLF friends (Fatsaan Hung Sing Gwun, China), so i can at least compare little bit.

btw. so called "imitation of the animals" is one of the most spread Hung Kyun bull****s

[South Paw]

btw. so called "imitation of the animals" is one of the most spread Hung Kyun bull****s

Hello Pavel,

Can you elaborate on this?

Regards,
Klaas

[The Great Sage of HU]

btw. so called "imitation of the animals" is one of the most spread Hung Kyun bull****s

You mean people didn't pinch a dragon, tiger and leopard with a stick to see their techniques and then use those techniques? And most people didn't get killed while trying to even get near a tiger or leopard?

Off course the techniques were there first and were given names later - some were named after animals, others after elements and so on.
Hung Ga is defnitely not imitationally shaped after/based on those animals and elements.