Beer, Blunts, Doobies, BOOBIES : ), water, etc...

[Water Dragon]

For every negative example you give me, I can point out a success story. People who are considered pillars of their community in multiple ways. Too many people to be an, 'exception to the rule'

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

People make choices.. some beneficial, some harmful.. in so much as they don't harm others, what's the problem?

DEA cites the criminal element as a serious negative: Guess what, legalize it and remove the stimulus for profit.. this greatly reduces the people who choose to use it from being exposed to the more dangerous drugs and criminals..

Legalize it, and use the tax revenue to combat the really dangerous drugs..

Legalize it, and create a new labor market with its own tax base..

Legalize it, and reduce the costs associated with investigation, prosecution, and incarceration..

It is my own belief that Cannibis should be treated like any other herb.. as a health conscious person, i have no need for routine recreational use.. but, i regard Cannibis as a bit like a sacrement, to be respected for its creative and consciousness expanding properties.. used infrequently, and with specific purposes of creative or metaphysical enhancement i see no harm.. naturally, overuse will, like any extreme, have harmful side-effects..

Contrary to the "reduced drive" and loss of awareness allegations.. those conditions were already present, Cannibis simply enhances a person's natural states.. The harmful effects demonstrated by those types of behavior are the most observable negative "perception" of Cannibis, but certainly not a predominate characteristic.. of the millions that use Cannibis, this country would be awash in the classic "stoner" profile, it is not.. i know many more responsible productive members of society than "stoners"..

It is the illegal status that romanticizes Cannibis.. the cheap thrill of defying the system.. The system creates a self-fulfilling prophesy, it makes the criminals it "says" it doesn't want.. We need to emerge from the dark ages and address Cannibis for what it is, a weed, an herb.. generally benign, except for the self-fulfilling prophesy of criminallity.. How many more people will the government drive underground in search of their choice of "pursuit of happiness", expose them to the criminal element.. drive our $$ into the support of crime.. The real crime is that Cannibis is illegal, our society make criminals of generally decent people.. many of whom choose Cannibis over alchohol, a better choice from my experience..

And, for the record, it is really confusing to examine the medical profession's willingness to prescribe some really mind screwing drugs for everyday use.. while they tell us of the harm of Cannibis.. check the last decade's statistics of abuse of drugs resulting the necessity for medical treatment.. as much as half of the abused drugs are leagally prescribed, THEN.. the victim has to rely on the same legal pushers (MDs) to fix the problem they created.. Now, there's a system that needs serious scrutiny.. how often do you see a Cannibis user in the ER for abuse?.. The irony of this exceeds reasonable or rational consideration..

Be well..

[Oso]

TCB has taken the correct, separated the seeds, fired it up and passed it on...

[Yao Sing]

Pot is strange and affects different people in different ways. I've seen guys that are completely useless on pot (like me) but I've also seen guys totally in tune and breeze through situations requiring a bit of brain power.

I have a friend that runs a successfull, and growing, business and he smoke a lot every day.

I also stood along side Keith Stroup smoking Thai Stick while he was interviewed just before going in to testify before Congress (smoke-in, Washington DC, 1974, I think) to legalize pot. I was amazed at how he could still talk intelligently when I'd be lucky to get my name right.

I gave that stuff up because it made my joints ache (the ones in my body, not my pocket) plus I wasn't very productive. It didn't seem to be a good fit with the Kenpo I was training at the time. I have a friend that used to smoke to loosen his body up to workout. We're all different.

[yu shan]

I can easily see the students in my school that smoke the tree. No worries, I`m no saint.

[lunghushan]

For every negative example you give me, I can point out a success story. People who are considered pillars of their community in multiple ways. Too many people to be an, 'exception to the rule'

Whatever. Don't expect me to put aside all the people I've known who have had trouble for your few pillars.

Like I said, I had no illusion I'd ever convince you otherwise. I've never convinced any addict they had a problem, not even most meth heads believe they have a problem.

[@PLUGO]

Well that's nothing to boast about. Stay away from Mexican brown, that stuff causes parkinsons disease.

Sounds like you've got your mind made up. This is, of course, fine... people should know what works for them or not.However, the above statement is flat out ridiculous. Earlier you said that you base your opinions on observation of your friends... so, if you have a friend that came down with Parkinson's after smoking some bad weed then perhaps your friend might look into his/her personal medical history.

If not, then either post a source for that statement or admit that is anecdotal, at best. Same with drug testing . . . putting aside work-arounds you are again jumping to false conclusions.

I have several friends who work for AT&T, it's hard to get more corporate than that yet all of them "partake" to various degrees. Some even have high security positions. So once again check your source or append your comments with "I believe" or something to that effect.

Or don't; most folks aren't going to be convinced to change their behavior by the sort of reasoning you're offering. And, it seems you're not all that invested in your position and probably less interested in the subject matter... so there you go.

regarding San Francisco/ California law. The debate over clinical cannabis is on going and happening on a city by city, county by county basis. The Prison Guards unions are very influential on the west coast and it's very much in their interest to keep jails filled with docile pot smoking offenders.

[lunghushan]

If not, then either post a source for that statement or admit that is anecdotal, at best. Same with drug testing . . . putting aside work-arounds you are again jumping to false conclusions.

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/pr/news/archive/park.html
http://www.fathersforlife.org/health...uat_and_PD.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001085.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A96E948260

Much of the Mexican brown is low quality pot that has been sprayed with Paraquat by the government to kill it, but is still sold in the U.S. anyway. Paraquat has been linked to Parkinsons disease.

http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/marijuana/cannabis.html

"Mexico has been spraying fields with paraquat, much of this sprayed marijuana makes its way to the United States. "

The functional groups on Paraquat when smoked act similar to heroin except they bind the receptors.

Believe me, I'm not making any of this up.

[@PLUGO]

Thank you for the links... I haven't scanned them yet but I will.

This sort of info is of much greater interest than the friend-of-a-friend sort of thing.

[lunghushan]

We first became aware of the Mexican brown thing when our friends smoked a whole bunch of cheap pot and were stoned for 4-5 days. I went and did some research and found out about the paraquat connection, which is documented very well.

Anyway, whatever. I don't know why you have to have scientific studies for everything. Can't you make up your own mind about things?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

man this forum is getting TRASHED!!!!!

makes me sad.....most of the 'vets' dont even bother posting anymore

craig

and in the end, marijuana isnt good for you, yea it may not be really really bad, but its still not a positive.

dude this is the most active i've seen the forum in a long long time. and more than half the people posting in this thread are vets. just like anything else the forum stagnates when there is no activity. true ... not all activity is as good as others, but at least its a sign of life.

[PangQuan]

there are different reactions for all types of people in many things.

there is no set rule, standard, or reaction. some people are weak minded, others are not.

bruce lee was found to have hash in his system after his death. was he a regular user or was it an every now and then thing? was he in contant pain and chose to use an non chemical aid for that pain? who knows. but the facts remain he at some point or another used.

was he unmotivated? lolz...

i say people will do what they do, and that is just how it is. some will drink beer, get fat guts, beat thier children and cheat on thier wife. some will drink beer and not let it effect them.

same with marijuana i suppose.

every one has an opinion. are any of us correct ?? no. its just a matter of opinion based on observation. through the observations we have we create bias outlooks and carry those through to the rest of our reactions regarding certain things.

for instance, my bias outlook. i think people who drink everyday shouldnt, but i can garantee you someone out there who drinks everyday is still on top of thier game.

would they be better w/o the drink? maybe, but then again...maybe not.

unless you are personally living the same experiences and lives as that person you cannot truly tell.

what may work for one may not work for another.

to each his own.

[lunghushan]

The best thing was when I gave my younger brother and sister the 'drug talk', because I knew my parents wouldn't do it.

I didn't tell them not to use drugs. I carefully explained about how to find the best pot, what happens if you score cheap pot, the things that drugs are commonly spiked with (speed, strychnine, etc.), what happens if you wind up with drugs that are spiked with speed, strychnine, etc., what happens if you flip out while on acid or PCP, how pot can affect your driving...

All of the people that I knew who had problems with drugs and the things that happened to them, like the friend who tried to cut his room-mate with a chain saw, the guy who broke his leg on coke.

I took them to visit my friends from high school who were still doing nothing, with minimum wage jobs at gas stations, who were huge pot-heads.

...

They never touched the stuff, ever.

[golden arhat]

you must live in the dutch embassy

[qiphlow]

i stopped smoking pot for the same reason i stopped eating acid--the trip began to be the same every time. it just wasn't fun anymore. i was smoking pot daily, acid one or twice weekly (plus mushrooms, plus ecstasy ). while i was doing it, i still went to work every day, if only because no paycheck =no dope! granted, there were plenty of times we had great plans for the day on a weekend, only to get stoned first and never get out the front door...