Training hard

[franco1688]

I'm starting this thread for martial artists to discuss/share training techniques and to share training stories. I don't wish to discuss politics or what style is the best. If you're training hard this may be the thread for you. No s**t talkers! Please.

[yenhoi]

f-u

I trained so hard I pulled my groin a little.

[bodhitree]

To me training needs to involve a few certain things and the combination of those things as many times exercises can be a combination of more than one.

1. technique training. This is where skills are developed. Drills, sparring, bagwork, etc. Probably most important (unfortunately for me probably what I work least).

2. Conditioning. Often times technique practice can aid in this if modified (such as punching out HIIT, other bagwork, heavy sparring, padwork) and supplementary exercises (on some days I do distance cardio and some days interval cardio) because for a martial artist endurance is essential, if for no other reason you can endure more technique training
3. Strength training. There are a number of approaches to this, I don't want to debate them, they can all be applied to your specific goals (explosive power, muscular endurance, strength). Personally, I cycle and change what I do every few months, I love powerlifting but I always want to give my body a change.I powerlifted for about 6 months on my last cycle.
4. Mental training. This MUST be different for every individual. Every persons mentality is different. I have one coach who calls himself our 'pain thresh-hold coach'. He is 300+ pounds and has grappled for 15 years. He looks at his job as making us tough. After taking beatings from him other people just don't seem very intimidating. Getting my mind right means becoming focused, relaxed, and ready. If I have time to warm up in a relaxed manner I will perform so much better. This aspect is also interesting because martial arts training trains the individual mentally and the individual trains themselves mentally for martial arts. Mental training is also putting that extra plate on the bar, or running that extra minute. Pushing yourself to do a little better every time. Mental training can also be gathering of information about combat, martial arts, fitness, nutrition, self, human nature, and anything else that might be applicable to martial arts. Then of course meditation and visualization if you're into that sort of thing. Mental training can be taking place all of the time.

To me, these are the essentials. Every area can overlap.

[franco1688]

It sounds like our training approaches are very similar. You have to keep an open mind and switch things up a little every now and then. When I first started training (when I was 13yrs. old) I don't think I placed enough value on strength training and running. I was all about kung fu and at that time, to me, it was the answer to everything. I think that is what some sifus want you to think. As I got older and ventired outside the kwoon, I realized that merely having good technique is not enough. Nowdays you have to be a well rounded athlete. You'e defintely right about the importance of mental preparation/training. There were many times, throughout the years, in my training that I would hit a sticking point, especcially where strength and endurance training are concerned. If it wasn't for great training partners making me realize that it was mental barriers that were prohibiting me from advancing, and not the lack of strength or endurance, I don't believe I would have progressed as far as I have in my life.

I've found that the best endurance training, for myself, as far as wind is concerned, is running. Here's the program I follow, for the most part. It's not detailed it's just to give you an idea:

1. Build an aerobic base. You need to work up to jogging/running 2-5 miles (or I believe thirty mins. is sufficient at a respectable pace). After doing this consistently for a period of time (let your body/ results be the judge) you're ready for the next phase.

2. Sprint/jog or stairs or hills/jog. You start off jogging until you feel you are sufficeintly warmed up. Then, you sprint this can either be for an alotted time period or until you are winded. Once you do this you don't stop you resume jogging. This teaches you active rest. What your body experiences by doing this type of training is very similar to what it experiences in a fight. Short bursts of energy followed by active recovery. When fighting you don't really have an oppertunity to stop and recover (unless the bell rings). You have to be able to recover while still in movement. Obviously, pacing yourself and some other things factor into the equation, but I think this training method definitely helps.

[bodhitree]

Yeah I remember when I thought martial arts alone was good enough conditioning. I believe maybe when I get older it will be, but the conditioning I do now (cardio wise) will help me age better (whether or not it will be good for the joints is another story, but thats what glucosamine, chondroitin, msn are for). Like I said, the thing missing the most from my personal training right now is sport specific training. I have a really busy schedule so I can't committ to a regular school and therefore conditioning is much easier for me because I can get to the gym at various hours. Someday this will change, training will always change, we just need to adapt, continue, and keep working on ways to get past those plateus.

[SevenStar]

1. Build an aerobic base. You need to work up to jogging/running 2-5 miles (or I believe thirty mins. is sufficient at a respectable pace). After doing this consistently for a period of time (let your body/ results be the judge) you're ready for the next phase.

2. Sprint/jog or stairs or hills/jog. You start off jogging until you feel you are sufficeintly warmed up. Then, you sprint this can either be for an alotted time period or until you are winded. Once you do this you don't stop you resume jogging. This teaches you active rest. What your body experiences by doing this type of training is very similar to what it experiences in a fight. Short bursts of energy followed by active recovery. When fighting you don't really have an oppertunity to stop and recover (unless the bell rings). You have to be able to recover while still in movement. Obviously, pacing yourself and some other things factor into the equation, but I think this training method definitely helps.

In a sense, this is incorrect. phase 1 does not prepare you for phase 2. You are working two different systems here. increasing your aerobic conditioning in phase one will not prepare you for anaerobic training in phase 2. you can actually do both of them at the same time, as they are two independently functioning systems. do cardio one day, do your sprints the next. your thought on active rest is correct, though.

[franco1688]

Did you read all of phase two? Phase two is not merely anerobic. It is also aerobic. Before you can start training like this you need a base to start from. That's what phase one is. Of course you can do both at the same time. But, like anything, you have to have a foundation first. Sure, you could jump right into phase 2, if your in decent condition. If you're not sure you'll benefit from it, but your not going to be able to last as long as you would with a good aerobic base. The same theory applies to martial arts forms. Sure anyone can perform a basic form, but you need to establish a foundation (ie. stances and basics) first before you can perform any forms or techniques properly and proficiently. When you build a house you have to start from the ground up. If you were building a house, would you start with the roof first?

-What does every great athelete do to prepare for their chosen sport? What does every great pugilist, every soccer player, every wrestler, every baseball player, every great football player have in common? They all run. It has to be done if you ever want to excel in any (physical) sport. ----- Yurich, (2002)

-"Running is the king of aerobic conditioning." ---- Bruce Lee

[SevenStar]

Did you read all of phase two? Phase two is not merely anerobic. It is also aerobic. Before you can start training like this you need a base to start from. That's what phase one is. Of course you can do both at the same time. But, like anything, you have to have a foundation first. Sure, you could jump right into phase 2, if your in decent condition. If you're not sure you'll benefit from it, but your not going to be able to last as long as you would with a good aerobic base. The same theory applies to martial arts forms. Sure anyone can perform a basic form, but you need to establish a foundation (ie. stances and basics) first before you can perform any forms or techniques properly and proficiently. When you build a house you have to start from the ground up. If you were building a house, would you start with the roof first?

-What does every great athelete do to prepare for their chosen sport? What does every great pugilist, every soccer player, every wrestler, every baseball player, every great football player have in common? They all run. It has to be done if you ever want to excel in any (physical) sport. ----- Yurich, (2002)

-"Running is the king of aerobic conditioning." ---- Bruce Lee

I read the whole thing. we do the same drill, measured on a track - sprint 100m, jog the next 100. Sprint the next 100, jog the last. repeat. If you are unable to jog, speed walk. I agree that a foundation is a great thing, but disagree that the best way to go about that is to startby spending x amount of time on cardio. If anything, I would start with only sprints. then, add the speed walk. then, take the walk to a jog. that way you are reaping the benefit of the anaerobic work, which is the more important aspect of combat anyway, unless you are in a ring and fighting in a venue with several rounds, like boxing.

and bruce may have been right - running is the king of aerobic conditioning, but anaerobic conditioning is the name of the fight game, not aerobic. And, I agree with the yurich quote as well. but they are making a different point from you. There point isn't that aerobic is a foundation for anaerobic. They are merely saying that aerobic conditioning is important.

[franco1688]

In regards to fighting and training in general, aerobic conditioning and anaerobic conditioning are of equal importance. Aneorbic alone is great for short bursts of energy. If you can't end the fight quickly you have to be able to last. A well rounded fighter and athlete works on both. That's about all I have left to say about this subject. Best wishes and I hope your approach works well for you.

[yenhoi]

[Chief Fox]

Here's a little article about Evander Holyfield's training program.

http://sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

Take note of the sentence that says "The road work ended promptly and completely."

Interesting that a long thought staple of any boxers training program is now thought of as ineffective.

[bodhitree]

I don't think every trainer has the same philosophy about road work, many fighters do still use distance training in conjunction with anaerobic training. Personally I thing running (while not great on the joints) is great for the wind and stabalizer muscles. I do interval training also, in two minute rounds (that being the length of rounds in the tournament I will fight in october 14). I don't know, some athletes I really respect consider distance really important to their performance.

[franco1688]

You're right running isn't the greatest on the joints. Usually, in the "off season," or rather leading up to about 8-10 weeks out from a fight I usually run one day and strength train the next (I still do cardio on this day, but I do something low-impact like the elliptical or something). If you need to take a day off, do so. If you don't you'll regret it and your career either won't last long or you training will be hindered due to injury. I start pre-fight training usually 8-10 weeks out, depending on my condition at that time. In the pre-fight stage I use a pyramid style program, not only as far a running (cardio)is concerned, but with strength and sport-specific training. I work my way up to a certain point (peak) then I taper off slightly and focus more on sparring and technique. I'm sure there are other views on this, but it seems to work for me. Another area of concern is diet. I'm kinda interested in hearing what some of you guys do, as far as diet is concerned.

[franco1688]

Trained hard monday and tuesday:

mon.- 2 mile run, biked 1 hour. later did Iron Vest training and Iron Palm. 15 mins. elliptical, ab machine, practiced silps under rope w/&w/o combinations (3min. rounds x 3), finished hard on exercise bike 22 min./10 miles.

tues.- weight train chest/shoulders/triceps ,
chest- bench/ bar x 30, 135x20, 185 x 15, 205 x 10, 225 x 8
dips/ 15 reps
incline press/ 135 x 12, 135 x 10, 135 x 8
decline press/ 135 x 12, 135 x 10, 135 x 8
pec deck/ 80 x 20, 90 x 15, 100 x 10

shoulders- behind neck mil. press/ bar x 30, 95 x 15, 115 x 10, 135 x 6
lateral raise mach./ 80 x 15, 90 x 12, 100 x 10 ,decending set to failure 100-80-60-40-20
plate raises/ 45 x 15, 45 x 12, 45 x 10
frontraise/ 20 lbs. dumbells to failure

triceps- tricep push downs/ 130 x 15, 150 x 12, 170 x 10




iron vest, iron palm. later I did 10 mins elliptical, slips drill (3 min. round),shadow box w/ weights (5lbs. dumbells/100 straight punches, 100 crosses, 100 upper cuts, alternating presses to failure), 20 mins. bike

[franco1688]

wed.- 2.5 miles hills and sprints

thurs.- chopped wood (split 50 logs non-stop), loaded wood into rubbermaid tote carried, at a fast pace, 50 yards and stacked (3 hrs. total no rest), lifted back, traps, biceps.

Back- Pull downs/ 15x 120, 12x 140, 10x160
Hammer Strength Rows/ 12x140, 10x160, 8x180
Hammer Strength Close Grip Pull Downs/ 12x180, 10x180, drop set 8x180 , 4 x160, 4x140, 4x120,4x100,90 to failure.
Straight arm pull downs/ 15x110, 10x130,8x160

Traps- Superset Upright Rows & Shrugs/ 12x90-12x140, 10x90-10x140, 8x90- 8x 140

Biceps- Preacher curls/ 12x65, 10x65,8x65
Alt. dumbell curls/ 12x30, 10x35, drop set 8x40, 4x35, 4x30, 4x25, 4x20, 4x15, 10 to failure