300

[Li Kao]

I agree with 5Animals about the scenes with the wife and the political backstory. Didn't mind the mutant minions as much -- after all, it's a movie and not really supposed to be a historical documentary, so why not use the imagination a little.

Also agree that Spartan abs are impressive.

It was interesting to see the country of Iran up in arms about this movie. Maybe if I was Iranian, I would be upset too and feel slighted -- but it's just a movie, meant for entertainment, so I don't know why they get taken so seriously... when I watch the OUTIC movies, I'm not offended by the portrayal of the greedy imperialistic American pigs that are there to corrupt the East. Who knows, maybe I *should* be more "patriotic" but again, it's just a movie.

As far as numbers go, 300 has been a smashing success. In just 2 weeks, it has surpassed the 16week domestic gross of Troy, and now needs to make another 50 million or so to overtake Gladiator, which I would be surprised if it doesn't eventually do. Worldwide, it hasn't made the impact as the others have, but at least in the U.S., it has triumphed thusfar. Here is an interesting chart on BoxOfficeMojo called Ancient Battle Showdown, where they compare the numbers between these 3 films -- http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdow...ientbattle.htm

[mickey]

Greetings,

This was one horrible propaganda movie. They even go as low as to use the reverse of the Marine cry for the warriors. References to a New Age (New World Order), and staying the course for freedom made this blunt a very bad trip (and I don't smoke the stuff). There was nothing to enjoy when one has to fend off attacks to one's consciousness. What really makes it worse were the critics who steadfastedly denied that this movie had absolutely nothing to o with the war in Iraq. It had EVERYTHING to do with the war in Iraq. There was one instant that did ring of truth and that was when the queen slew the guy who betrayed her and all the coins fell to the ground. That was only one of two references that somebody is really getting over like a fat greasy rat from this war in Iraq and they are, regrettably, American.


mickey

[lonewolf]

300 had nothing to do with the war in iraq. unlike some people i read comics, and unlike more people i realize that most other people don't read comics. when 300 was released on the shelves nobody in the comic biz thought that it would do good. after all how often do historical fiction about greeks do good in comics? 300 was a huge seller in comic shops and after sin city did so well why wouldn't hollywood try to cash in on another miller comic? as for the war, i think ladies and gentlemen we have found our first iranian on kung fu mag.com. who else would get so PO'd about this bad @ss movie? you can try to sit there and convince the world that 300 was propaganda but the rest of us know that it was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEET! and we like our movies like that. we also know that it was to make rich people even richer but as long as they putout stuff as cool as 300 we are okay with that.

[Li Kao]

Mickey,

Obviously others have brought up similiar arguments, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. The graphic novel was published in 1998, well after the first Gulf War and years before the current conflict. Frank Miller has stated he was inspired to make his comic version after seeing the 1962 movie The 300 Spartans -- what's funny is that there was talk back then of that movie having "Cold War overtones." Also, the point about the Greek who was betraying his own people by getting rich off the enemy -- he was eventually ferretted out and killed by his own people, right? So what is the message there?

Since we are currently still involved in a conflict, you could probably watch any war movie and draw parallels. I guess I just watched the movie simply for what it was, and not what it may or may not have been trying to preach. I respect your take and opinion on it, but I just didn't see it myself.

[doug maverick]

but considering this was a real historic event all be it dramatized for the film. i guess we just have to close that part of our mind that tells us that this propaganderish bull****, and just enjoy it for what is a good popcorn flick with little dialogue lots of actions. and some tna. but i must say i ould've done without the bull**** about his wife who cares.one thing is for certain thou if we know hollywood and i'm sure we all do a sequal is deffently in the works.

[PangQuan]

you can take most any movie and put any form of propaganda twist on it.

"why, oh why do you say that uncle pang?"

well its simple.

this type of propaganda everyone sees is not blatant. its very subtle yet they point it out as such that they claim it to be. however, often times you can point at one scene and find many types of propaganda for what your seeing. its all in the eye of the beholder.

if you look at the past, propaganda is always seen in things like this in regards to current state of affairs. could be true or it could be paranoid delusions and what i like to call propaganda seeking.

its so vague we see what we want to see. if your LOOKING for propagand you will most certainly see it. you can pull any movie you want out of a hat and i could link propaganda from more than one scene that could be linked to any various current or past world affairs. it just depends on how good of an imagination you have.

there is a song by Sepultura called Propaganda. basically they say dont believe what you see, dont believe what you read, because you never know what is and what isnt meant to be what.

of course we are surrounded by propaganda. its part of our culture.

i am not saying there is or is not specific forms of propagand in this or any other film. im just saying you see what you want.

if you choose to ignore propagand you wont see it. if you choose to look and find certain types, you WILL find it. even if it was never meant to be portrai in such a fashion.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I was not looking for the propaganda. It just kept popping out at me from the screen. It actually took away from the movie.

Now, if the dialogue came straight from the graphic novel, then it would not be an incredible stretch to believe that Bush Jr. based his address on the 300 graphic novel. He has done worse.

In terms of historical accuracy, that is totally bypassed because it is based on the Miller graphic novel.

Does anyone remember that Oliver Stone crap about Alexander the Great. Well during the street celebratory scene and all the cheers, one can distinctly hear USA amongst the cheers. And that was another propaganda movie. And again, I was not looking for it.

mickey

[Li Kao]

Mickey,

Your last post has me confused -- can you elaborate on the specific scenes or dialogue that took away from the movie for you?

From what I saw, it was a pretty faithful adaptation of the graphic novel, and a good deal of the movie dialogue was word-for-word from the graphic novel. I thought the same thing with Sin City -- it appeared that they went to great lengths to preserve the look, feel, and intention of the original comics. I had read all of the Sin City comics as well as the 300 graphic novel years before seeing the movies, and more so than than other movie that has been done on a comic book, both of these movies were amazingly like the comic. There was a review writtten up for Sin City that showed stills from the movie side-by-side with the corresponding comic book page, and they were eerily similiar. I'm sure you could do the same thing with 300.

I guess I'm just wondering what really bothered you so much about the movie -- I walked out thinking, wow, they really nailed it again (in terms of making the pages of a comic book come to life).

[mickey]

Hi Li Kao,


1- The military battle cry of the U.S. Marines goes something like Huu ahhh. The battle cry for the Spartan warriors in the movie was Ahh huu, the reverse of the Marine cry.

(Trying to remember dialogue)

2- That their war was a fight for freedom-- freedom for their wives and children.

3- That they should stay the course of the war and not back down to the Persians.

I will try to find more. But that is just too much for me already.

Did the graphic novel have the aforementioned?

The reason why I say that George Bush may have ripped off the movie (or the graphic novel if the dialogue originates there) is because the movie may have been finished anywhere from several months to over a year ago. There was more than enough time to set this up.

I am interested in seeing how this movie affects Presidential approval ratings for the War in Iraq.


mickey

[@PLUGO]

Is there a Propaganda slant to 300? Perhaps. While I still enjoyed viewing this movie there were a few issues that really couldn't be ignored. The Black people = evil angle was just one.

I suspect this sort of film could only have been made at this time. The Movie did veer from the Graphic Novel in a few ways. One of which was the characterization of one of the characters.

In the film he was the guy looking for a "beautiful death." As written in the Graphic Novel he was a young solider who stumbled during the march to the Hell Gates and could barely live down that embarrassing misstep. It wasn't until he proved himself (by loping off the hand of that slave driving messenger) that Leonidas finally acknowledged him by calling him by name and giving him the ultimate honor of playing that pivotal role at the very end of Leonidas's Spear throwing gambit.

It's not a big change and could be justified as part of the screen-writing streamlining process. Still it significantly changes a thematic element IMO. Rather than demonstrating how a young member of a community can succeed in gaining the respect of his leader it became an ad for a (very short) life in the military. One doesn't have to do more than seek out a beautiful death to be cool.

That seems a bit like propaganda. I can't say for certain if it was intended that way. Having reread the Graphic Novel just before seeing the film it was a noticeable thematic difference.

I'm sure there's more examples to be found for those will to see. I almost hurt myself rolling my eyes during that "Freedom isn't Free" speech. Though I will admit to enjoying the Queen Gorgo subplot. Aside from giving the obligatory female lead something to do it helped to give substance to the final scene with 10,000 Spartans running to war, which I found to be a bit weak in the graphic novel.

As for Frank Millar's political views; his next comic will be BATMAN vs. Al Qaeda. We can all look forward to his socio-political insights displayed on the pages of that comic. Hopefully, also a drawing of Batman punching Osama Bin Laden in the beard.

On the other hand GWB seems to resemble Xerxes more than Leonidas. At least in terms of god complex and choice of transportation.

[The Xia]

Did the graphic novel have that racial angle that the movie did?

[@PLUGO]

Did the graphic novel have that racial angle that the movie did?

Interestingly many of the "Persian" actors were cast for their remarkable resemblance to the comic illustrations. This was not so much the case with the Spartans who seemed to have been drawn with more attention to their ethnic origins. Would white wash ba an appropiate term for the casting of the Spartans? I'm not sure.

Perhaps it's the nature of the Graphic Novel format but it seems the issue of race was not quite as apparent. It was Greek vs. Persian characters drawn in Frank Millar's unique style. I wonder if would be different if some of the lead Spartan were not actors from the U.K.

[Jimbo]

Oddly enough, Persians (or what we today call Iranians) are Indo-European, and classified as Caucasian.

[5Animals1Path]

I'd say the "Greek" characters were that in name only. In the book, there's not a one that doesn't have jet black hair, and if it's long, it's got curls. Also, as has become the running joke at my school, it could've done without all the Spartans having Scottish and English accents.

"Yew've come to tayk outr lahnd?!"


The more I think about it, the less I like this movie.

[FuXnDajenariht]

not to nitpick but the greek battle cry sounded more like Haaa-oooom to me.