Slap happy chappies

[tjwingchun]

Just interested in what you all think of this:-

http://www.ipdta.com/openhandhit/handonly.html

The jury is still out as far as I am concerned, but thought there might be some interest from here.

[leejunfan]

I have a long history of open hand slap/palm strikes and I know FOR FACT how effective they are. I watched a few of these clips and they are indeed hitting all the places I target with great effectiveness.

Cool page... I'm saving this one. Thanks

[Ultimatewingchun]

Looks like some of that stuff could be very effective.

Also looks like those guys are crazy!

[marcus_pasram]

Hi Tj,

Thanks for sharing that. I didn't view all the clips, however, the distintive Pak Sau (slapping/clapping hand) sound was there. I've been on the receiving end of many a pak sau during training, and they hurt like a mother!*** and leave bruises no matter how many armpads you're wearing. I've also seen broken arms from excessively training the pak sau. The few clips I did watch showed examples of the pak sau against a stationary target, more often we apply it against punches. It hurts more, because the attacker is also moving towards the slap ...

BTW - you can see a few examples of how we train it here and here ...the latter has slowmotion and multiple cam angles. If you watched the other videos, I'm sure you'll recognize the sound.

[Liddel]

While IME the punch is higher percentage in a real fight, the palm can be quite a bennifit if used on the areas shown in the vid.

If youve practiced SLT the right way so that you have good inch power, then your palm can be even more sucessful than whats seen in the vids IMO.

Often when i use plams to the face if the situation permits, i follow with a pull down after catching the target for a finger scrape / eye gauge....very quick and most effective

Cheers for the link.

[Mr Punch]

Also looks like those guys are crazy!

Funnily enough, one of them reminded me very much of one of my old aikido sempai who is a riot police and h2h instructor...

... the distintive Pak Sau (slapping/clapping hand) sound was there.

Interesting. I was taught to try and get pak sau so it doesn't make a sound. Sound is a form of energy, which means you are converting kinetic energy into sound energy, and thus losing some of the kinetic energy. Sure the slappy ones hurt but for more penetrating shots work out on a bag to get them so they're silent. These are the ones that don't rock the back at all, but crumple/fold it around where you're hitting. The most painful pak I received made it very painful to do anything with my right arm for two weeks: I certainly couldn't clench a fist or put up a wu sau. It didn't make a noise.

and leave bruises no matter how many armpads you're wearing.

Again, while this is true, the pak I mentioned above gave me a bruise which took three days to appear. Deep bruising doesn't appear after immediately as the vessels are broken way beneath the skin, and the blood takes a while to get to the surface. I guess wearing armpads would make the depth of the penetration hit the level of the skin, rather than into the flesh. I've had paks that have felt like they have ripped the muscle away from the bone.

I've also seen broken arms from excessively training the pak sau.

Really? How many? And I don't think you mean from excessively training... the effect isn't cumulative right?! Or did you mean excessive power? Although if you've seen that many broken arms I would agree that your training is excessive!

The few clips I did watch showed examples of the pak sau against a stationary target, more often we apply it against punches. It hurts more, because the attacker is also moving towards the slap ...

I disagree completely with this assessment. It can hurt more, depends on what other target you're comparing it to and the effectiveness of that particular pak (which in turn depends on myriad conditions). The 'which one hurts more' argument is thus somewhat irrelevant. Plus, conversely, I've seen good punches blast straight through badly timed or structured paks countless times: if you don't get your body mechanics behind it it's a very weak structure and begging for a broken wrist, esp against a slightly rounded elbow-out punch like a standard boxing cross. Pak is a great tech if you angle your body into it (and away from the trajectory of the incoming, so as not to meet force with force) which also gives you the angle to follow it through as a plam to the centre if you miss the contact with their incoming.

I don't really think it's the same as a lot of these slaps. These slaps seem effective but it seems like a looser, more chain-like dynamic than the hammer and nail of the pak, or the parrying cover of the turning pak. And in these cases, as they're aiming to knock/shock the opponent over rather than crush/sink his centre, the slapping sound doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter that the angle is at right angles to the target (again very different to the pak): again this is very effective to (for example) the ears with a percussion strike.

BTW Marcus, I'm not criticising in any way and look forward to your further thoughts.

Interesting link tj thanks.

[leejunfan]

actual palm strikes (like those seen in the videos) and Pak Sau are two different entities.

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Tj,

Thanks for sharing that. I didn't view all the clips, however, the distintive Pak Sau (slapping/clapping hand) sound was there. I've been on the receiving end of many a pak sau during training, and they hurt like a mother!*** and leave bruises no matter how many armpads you're wearing. I've also seen broken arms from excessively training the pak sau. The few clips I did watch showed examples of the pak sau against a stationary target, more often we apply it against punches. It hurts more, because the attacker is also moving towards the slap ...

BTW - you can see a few examples of how we train it here and here ...the latter has slowmotion and multiple cam angles. If you watched the other videos, I'm sure you'll recognize the sound.

Hi Marcus, I haven't seen the clips you posted yet, but I've been on the end of your Sifu's palm strikes many times. They were from a short distance with no wind up and they hurt like . . . .
PR