TUF Season 4 question

[WinterPalm]

In comparison to other striking arts, TCMA has an incredible variety of techniques and stand alone strikes. Many of them require/necessitate a set up of some sort or another that is based around position and superior leverage and vantage points. The bulk of what I understand thus far to be crucial is getting you into those positions to execute a superior strike/takedown. This is also important if you are unable to dictate the pace or position and find yourself losing it, that is when the odd angles and unconventional strikes (single knuckle, fu-jow, multi or single finger, etc) come into play. If you set up a good shot, regardless of a backfist or whatever, then you are going to place that advantage momentarily. A backfist can knock you out without a doubt but mechanics of yourself and your opponent, the angles, the set up, and the relative conditioning of yourself and the ability of your opponent to take a hit all come into play. A backfist can be a quick thing to the face to set something up, or a follow up that using a whipping strength to generate power.

I would never become close minded towards anything in a striking arsenal if it is based around sound mechanics/attribute deveopment and proper set-up. If I do not understand that technique that is one thing, but to dismiss it under the conditions lined out above, that is just silly.

I like Chuck Liddell simply because he uses a very weird/unconventional and unorthodox style that seems to work...that and the mohawk/moustache combo!
Any of you watch Anderson Silva. In terms of sport fighting I think he is probably the most technical and effective striker yet.

[SevenStar]

I don't disagree with anything you stated.

[WinterPalm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpUkneMSWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0sirRdSLM0

Here's some interesting videos.

Enjoy.

[Ben Gash]

slower also, most likely. unless you are talking about a snapping backfist, in which case I'd call BS.

But in context speed is not necessarily the be all and end all. Timing is equally important, as are numerous other factors. Would I use a backfist in a situation where I'd use a right cross? No. I'd use backfists almost exclusively where I'd had to raise up or pull down my opponent's guard with my back hand, and where the dynamics of the situation would rob power from a lead arm straight.

[Green Cloud]

he said in his post that it sucked unless you add a spin to it... you just backed his argument.

Sonny liston was known for having a KO inducing jab, as have several other boxers. I don't know of anyone with a KO inducing snapping backfist, and any other variation would not be a set up...

Well thank you for clarifying that, I know my spelling is bad but I can read.

If you read my post I was just backing up the argument with an example and I also stated that the Back fist is used like a jab to set up another tech.

To say that the backfist is ulsess is an absurd statement, it's fuction is just like the jab and I have also seen people knocked out with it.

I guess it would be redundant for KF to rebuttle his statement since your answering for him, sometimes I get the feeling that you guys are the same guy

[SevenStar]

I guess it would be redundant for KF to rebuttle his statement since your answering for him, sometimes I get the feeling that you guys are the same guy

Did I forget to log off as SevenStar again? d@mmit....

[The Xia]

actually, yes - initially. in order to have a claw strong enough to rip a tendon, how long does that take? To have the accuracy and presence of mind to do it in a fight, with heightened heart rate and adrenaline rushing, how long does that take? My guess is that no newbie could use it worth anything. palms and fists are great, but the actual claw wouldn't have much use beyond a rake to the eyes.

Later down the line, sure it may have use.

And that has nothing at all to do with the training methods, as I mentioned earlier. That is the main factor. the most conditioned hand on the planet does you no good if you can't use it.

It does have to do with training methods because a good fu jow is delivered by the most conditioned of hands as well as those with the skill to use it. The various hand-weapons in Kung Fu are also rather versatile. For example, you can grasp onto someone while throwing them instead of using the clothing. The thing about a newbie being not being able to use fu jow effectively can be said for almost technique. Someone that took a week of Muay Thai vs. someone who took a week of Hung Gar would be just as unlikely to use what he learned to fight. It also depends on the person. Some people will gain combat proficiency before others.

That issue though, I can't answer, as I don't know how the fu jow school that would be in question trained. You can't really just assume that fu jow is badass just because it's fu jow...

I was not referring to any particular style or school. Fu Jow is a common hand weapon in many styles.

[The Xia]

CMA is not effective, we should all beat the tar out of one another to prove we aren't gay.

LOL This pretty much sums up the sentiments of every TMA-bashing MMA-fanboy.

[SevenStar]

It does have to do with training methods because a good fu jow is delivered by the most conditioned of hands as well as those with the skill to use it. The various hand-weapons in Kung Fu are also rather versatile. For example, you can grasp onto someone while throwing them instead of using the clothing. The thing about a newbie being not being able to use fu jow effectively can be said for almost technique. Someone that took a week of Muay Thai vs. someone who took a week of Hung Gar would be just as unlikely to use what he learned to fight. It also depends on the person. Some people will gain combat proficiency before others.

you missed my point. like I said, a conditioned hand means squat if you can't use it. Not everyone who trains to conditions their hand trains to fight effectively. Many grappling styles teach you to grab the body instead of clothing, not just chinese styles. bjj features no gi grappling tournaments. Catch is done without a gi as well.

c'mon dude... I wasn't talking about a week. Take a 6 month boxer. Take a 6 month fu jow stylist.

1. I'd put any amount of money on the boxer.
2. how conditioned is his hand after 6 months, assuming that he IS good enough to use it.

I was not referring to any particular style or school. Fu Jow is a common hand weapon in many styles.

yeah, it is. When I see fu jow though, I think immediately of the style.

[David Jamieson]

knife, you're finger pointing at perceptions you hold and don't offer meat and potatoes about what is wrong with method.

you make a statement about alleged schools that do these things. In all honesty I have never encountered a kungfu school that does these things you mention and I am starting to wonder where they are.

is this a states thing? because I know there is a lot of cranks, whackos and looneys in almost every line of business imaginable down there. :P

see, that's my perception. and I expect someone to pipe in and say it aint so.

holding stances and forms is bad? why? why is it bad? what do you have to show that says it is detrimental to ones learning in a style of kungfu? specifically? I can tell you specifically what it has to do with kinesiological principles associated with the art being practiced. can you tell me specifically what is wrong?

[SevenStar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpUkneMSWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0sirRdSLM0

Here's some interesting videos.

Enjoy.

that elbow KO was badass...

[Knifefighter]

Did you miss this or are you ignoring the question?

Doesn't matter why I post.

[Knifefighter]

Do you claim Fu Jow is useless?

Mostly. It's also a good way to expose your fingers and wrists for locks and breaks.

[Knifefighter]

knife, you're finger pointing at perceptions you hold and don't offer meat and potatoes about what is wrong with method.

you make a statement about alleged schools that do these things. In all honesty I have never encountered a kungfu school that does these things you mention and I am starting to wonder where they are.

Well, I'm guessing your school must do some of these things based on your misperceptions about injuries.

[Knifefighter]

A back fist is just like a jab and meant as a distraction to set up a more powerfull tech.

As far as a spin backfist watch Spike TV Mat Serra gets nocked out by one in one of the clips from his past fights or should I say losses.

so much for the backfist argument.

A jab sets up the more powerful rear hand. All a backfist sets up is a decrease in power for the rear hand.