Stillness vs Motion

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Gang,

Ive noticed with Taiji and other internal arts that some of the forms how they played are different.

For instance there are taiji that dont use what i call dragon body (coiling, spirialing like chens) compared to yangs that you see is more stillness i dont have a better word for it so im using stillness.

Now for the question!!

What are the benifits for using the dragon body or coiling type performance compared to the slower stillness type without the body movements?

I see the coiling working and massaging the internal organs but i can see the stillness as benifical for the chi cultivation at too!

What is better or worst or it can be played both ways?

Any comments....


Thanks in advance!
Garry

[The Xia]

Coiling motions generate explosive energy: very powerful for combat. Chen Tai Chi Chuan uses this.

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Xai,

Thanks i should have made it clearer i knew that but i was speaking more of chi cultivation and not the issuing of Fajing!

thanks again bro
Garry

[imperialtaichi]

I see the coiling working and massaging the internal organs but i can see the stillness as benifical for the chi cultivation at too!

What is better or worst or it can be played both ways?

Hello Garry,

One should play both ways! Both for health and combat reasons.

Of course, I'm only speaking from my line of Yang Style...

During form practice, we concentrate on the manipulation of Shen Yi Qi, but because the body is free it will reflect the movement of Yi Qi, twisting and turning accordingly. And during Fajing, although we try to keep as still as we can, the body does move a little, again by following the Yi Qi and not by deliberately moving the muscles consciousely. I have still yet to see a completely uncooperated throw with COMPLETE ZERO movement; although I have seen zero movement bounces in practice/play situations. (Garry, you may find this a good comparison between Stillness vs Motion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZEx3KZ5Wio . You will see that every part of my body does move a little in the Single Whip, though not consciousely.)

Just off the top of my head, the more coiling movements include Shooting Bird Posture, Jade Lady, Returning the Tiger to the Mountain, Overturning Body Whipping Hammer just to name a few. Not to mention the sword form is full of twists and turns even more.

Coiling motions generate explosive energy: very powerful for combat. Chen Tai Chi Chuan uses this.

And I totally disagree that one would need "obvious" coiling motions to generate explosive energy. All Tai Chi when done properly can generate plenty of power, and not just limited to Chen, Yang, Sun, Wu, Wu etc.

Cheers,
John

[Fu-Pow]

According to my teacher you should first seek to be long and sung (no tension) then circles/spirals will happen naturally. If you try to create spiraling you will be all closed up.

[fiercest tiger]

John,

Thanks man, you freak me out everytime brother! That was awesome man, check your message box please?!

Do you know of any clips of Taiji forms done with stillness but does show some internal coiling and not physical coiling?


regards
Garry

[fiercest tiger]

John,

I just re-read your post, so during the Imperial Yang system when doing the form there is times in stillness and times when coiling is more dynamic as such but the stillness still has coiling inside using the Yi Chi?

What would be the outcome if you use YI CHI as well the more dynamic type of coiling like you see in Chens?

Sorry for the questions, but you've opened up a few new doors to my training so curious minds as they say brother!!!

thanks
Garry

[imperialtaichi]

What would be the outcome if you use YI CHI as well the more dynamic type of coiling like you see in Chens?

Hello Garry,

Basically, the Yi Qi controls everything. You cannot effectively try to coil the body deliberately AND use the Yi Qi simutaneousely, at lease not something I can do. Bit complicated, but when you understand the operation of Yi Qi you will understand why. We'll play with it together before you head down south.

Cheers,
John

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Stillness is the base of coiling, spiraling, circling, exploding.. we remain still until stimulus informs us of appropriate responses.. contriving movement is the signature of expectation, a contrary element of Taiji.. movement, in expectation of the opponent's movement, sends the message of our intentions and is an opportunity for our opponent to acquire an advantage..

Chen's outwardly observable spirals and coiling are tools used to build pathways for effortless Yi expressions, like driving familiar roads.. it's easier.. combinations of vectors create unique challenges for an opponent, as you follow your opponent into their retreat change the vectors from which you apply the "four ounces", the necessity for them to change responses will often conceal the advantage you have manifested.. spiraling outward is frequently used to continuously change force vectors.. coiling inward conceals your center as you store the energy applied by the opponent.. notice that a spring is "comfortably sung" (still) until force is applied, and its responses are directly proportionate to the applied forces, no excess~no deficiency.. Most Taiji players use excessive forces and exaggerated movements in responses to opponent's efforts.. good Taiji is minimalist..

Yang's vs. Chen's spiraling and coiling is a difficult comparison.. Yang's outward appearance is circular, its spiraling and coiling is much more internal.. Chen is just the opposite.. so, reason implies that a balance is appropriate, yet.. within either is the fullness of Taiji, the differing expressions are suited to the differing natures of the students..

As someone applies force and you remain Sung, they will feel the futility of their effort and choose a different vector/technique.. it is is in the moment of their choosing that they are most vulnerable, this is when we adhere/stick to their redirection, forcing them to get "stuck" in trying to find the appropriate responses.. too much force on our part makes their choices more clear, where subtle and changing is too soft and varied for obvious responses.. the opponent is lost in too many choices to choose.. as the awareness of the opponent hones in on their predicament, their rush to avoid loss creates our desired advantage..

Okay, now i'm just rambling.. Be well....