UFC rules and TMA

[Flying-Monkey]

At first, I agreed with most MMAist in this forum about CMAist crying about the rules in tournaments like UFC. However, after visiting the UFC website, I do not feel that UFC rules are good for a lot of TMA techniques. Here is the list of fouls from the UFC website.

* = not good for TMA
**= not good for TMA but should not be allowed.


Fouls: [Top]
*1. Butting with the head.
**2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
*4. Hair pulling.
**5. Fish hooking.
*6. Groin attacks of any kind.
**7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
*8. Small joint manipulation.
**9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
*10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
*11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
*12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*13. Grabbing the clavicle. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
*15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
*16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
*17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
**18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
*20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

Now, I know I will get heII from MMAist, but you must admit. Now that many fighters are used to JJ, many TMA do not make the same mistakes.

[lkfmdc]

How good is your gouging, hair pulling, butting, biting, clawing and throat striking? I mean, how do you know? How do you practice it? You can practice kicks and punches on a pad, on a person, etc... do you do a line of bites up and down the floor?

Who do you think can actually use stuff like bites and gouges in a fight? The guy on the bottom, or the guy on top with the controlling position?

Frankly, if you get taken down and mounted, all the eye gouges in the world aren't going to save you. You're served working yoru take down defenses and getting back to your feet if that fails than relying on biting

If you think your fighting art only works if you can bite, what kind of a fighting art are you doing?

[lkfmdc]

How good is your gouging, hair pulling, butting, biting, clawing and throat striking? I mean, how do you know? How do you practice it? You can practice kicks and punches on a pad, on a person, etc... do you do a line of bites up and down the floor?

Who do you think can actually use stuff like bites and gouges in a fight? The guy on the bottom, or the guy on top with the controlling position?

Frankly, if you get taken down and mounted, all the eye gouges in the world aren't going to save you. You're served working yoru take down defenses and getting back to your feet if that fails than relying on biting

If you think your fighting art only works if you can bite, what kind of a fighting art are you doing?

[Flying-Monkey]

How good is your gouging, hair pulling, butting, biting, clawing and throat striking? I mean, how do you know? How do you practice it? You can practice kicks and punches on a pad, on a person, etc... do you do a line of bites up and down the floor?

Who do you think can actually use stuff like bites and gouges in a fight? The guy on the bottom, or the guy on top with the controlling position?

Frankly, if you get taken down and mounted, all the eye gouges in the world aren't going to save you. You're served working yoru take down defenses and getting back to your feet if that fails than relying on biting

If you think your fighting art only works if you can bite, what kind of a fighting art are you doing?

Biting does not have a star.

[The Xia]

I always said that many of the things you use in TMA can't be used in sanctioned competitions like UFC, etc. You can still use some stuff, but not all of it. The thing that MMA people ignore, don't believe, or don't know, is that traditional martial arts were created for out-of-ring combat. Training wasn't a luxury, but a tool of survival. The techniques present will reflect this. Does this mean that it can't be used in the ring? Of course not! TMA can be used, you just can't do certain techniques. Here is where the MMA guys come along and say, "Then where are these traditional martial arts fighters?" The answer to that is simple. Many of the TMA people that can fight aren't the types to enter MMA events. Kyokushin guys can fight, but they don't need to do so in the UFC since they are happy in their own events. As for Kung Fu guys, those that wish to engage in sport combat will likely go for San Da. In addition, just because someone does not wish to go into sport combat doesn't mean he has no skills. So those in the TMA world that are good will likely stay away from MMA events and organizations like the UFC will get stuck with mostly the bottom of the TMA barrel.

[lkfmdc]

Biting does not have a star.

Fine, substitute any of the other tactics for the words "bite", "bites" or "biting" and the argument is the same

[Flying-Monkey]

Fine, substitute any of the other tactics for the words "bite", "bites" or "biting" and the argument is the same

No, it isn't.

[Flying-Monkey]

Try to fight someone who has strong hand squeezing power (130lbs or more in one hand). They can EASILY dislocate the clavicle.

[The Xia]

According to what you posted, your own sifu was highly adept at clawing.

[mantis108]

I don't think it's healthy to confuse dirty tactics with delivery system. Worst still is to confuse gymnastic or acting attributes with fighting ability.

Mantis108

[CLFLPstudent]

Flying Mokey wrote:
Try to fight someone who has strong hand squeezing power (130lbs or more in one hand). They can EASILY dislocate the clavicle.

This, among other 'asterisked' rules ( SJM, throat striking, etc.) will undoubtedly injure the players. Remember that UFC, K1, KotC et. al are all SPORTS. They governing bodies must do what they can to ensure their money-makers are going to be around for the next fight, not re-habbing a compound frocture of the pniky. Not in the hospital with a fractured trachea.

I can't imagine any local government sanctioning a fight where someone can get soccer kicked while on his back. Some of those rules were specifically put in so that certain states can not only host UFC, but even watch it on PPV.

-David

[Ravenshaw]

Yeah, kung fu was meant for dirty fighting, but if you have to fight dirty to win... well, what lkfmdc said.

If you have strong basics in fighting and have time to get used to the gear and rules, you have no excuse.

[brucereiter]

At first, I agreed with most MMAist in this forum about CMAist crying about the rules in tournaments like UFC. However, after visiting the UFC website, I do not feel that UFC rules are good for a lot of TMA techniques. Here is the list of fouls from the UFC website.

* = not good for TMA
**= not good for TMA but should not be allowed.


Fouls: [Top]
*1. Butting with the head.
**2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
*4. Hair pulling.
**5. Fish hooking.
*6. Groin attacks of any kind.
**7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
*8. Small joint manipulation.
**9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
*10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
*11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
*12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*13. Grabbing the clavicle. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
*15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
*16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
*17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
**18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
*20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

Now, I know I will get heII from MMAist, but you must admit. Now that many fighters are used to JJ, many TMA do not make the same mistakes.

what is that story about one of yang luchans sons being in a fight and beating the other guy, then going home and proudly telling his dad and the dad saying yeah what ever you need to practice your sleeve is torn ... and you always hear stories about masters through out history who were able to defeat their foe with out hurting them.
which leads to these questions

to defend your self:
do you really want to gouge a persons eyes out?
do you need to break a persons spine?
do you need to damage the trachea?
maybe tcma should practice more compassionate ways of defending themselves.

what i am getting at is i do not think these ufc rules work against a tcma and a tcma with skill should have no problem competing under these rules (i do think a tcma would need some pretty good skill to beat the average ufc person under sporting rules though), i think they are in place to keep the athletes safe remember the ufc is a sport.

[SifuAbel]

*1. Butting with the head.
**5. Fish hooking.
*8. Small joint manipulation.
**9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
*10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
*11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
*12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*13. Grabbing the clavicle. <---this is one of my favorate attacks
*14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
*15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
*16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
*17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
**18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence. (this seems to happen anyway.)

Here are the ones that really mean anything to a striker.

[YouKnowWho]

Don't under estimate the value of "biting". If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers off then the fight could end right there. Bite the moment you feel that you are going down with your opponent, and don't try to bite after your opponent got an arm bar on you.

How to train "biting"?

Beginner level - Get a raw pig leg and try to sink your teeth all the way through the bone.
Intermediate level - Try to bite a live dog's leg or rattle snake's head off.
Advance level - Go to the zoo and train with any living lion or tiger.

After you have passed all three levels of training, you may face any MMA guys without fear.

A. I lost one of my fingers in my last MMA fight.
B. I lost one of my ears in my last BJJ fight.
C. I lost one of my balls in my last Pride fight.
D. I lost my "only" coc* in my last UFC fight.
E. I told you we CMA guys don't follow rules and we don't play fair.