On Behalf of Grandmaster Doo Wai

[lkfmdc]

NO one could really confuse these two terms

合拳

侠拳

They are NOT the same!

[The Xia]

pakhok did the work. All it takes is an educated eye to spot the answer. If that's too hard, all you have to do is use an internet search. That's what's so funny about this, even if you don't know the answer you can pretend you do.

[lkfmdc]

you know, us dumb white people (or am I african american?) can't possibly know Chinese and so high masters need not stoop down to answer our questions... either that or they don't really know

[GeneChing]

The answer certainly isn't secret. But not knowing the answer has minimal impact on the validity of anyone's style. Even a small amount of research into the history of martial arts will reveal a preponderance of misspellings. Many martial artists were illiterate. Some still are. It's not at all uncommon for the wrong character to be used within a deviant branch of any given lineage. Such errors are perpetuated to the point that they may even become standardized and create their own style. I touched on this issue in The Confusing Tracks of the Fist of Fury: Huo Yuan Jia's Style of Mizong Quan in our Sep Oct 2006 issue. It's one of the many factors that makes CMA research challenging. Even if Doo Wai's lineage uses the wrong character, that doesn't necessarily invalidate his claims. It could mean that his ancestor just wasn't educated and he hasn't bothered to follow up on it. He wouldnt be the only one.

I used to have this Tamo shirt from Shaolin Temple, one of those tourist hand-painted ones, where the characters for Tamo were incorrect. They were correct phonetically. The poor peasant who painted that shirt obviously didn't know. Hell, I didn't know until someone pointed it out to me. After that, it became one of my favorite shirts.

[lkfmdc]

Gene

With all due respect, I think you missed my point. Doo Wai, assuming it is really him, comes on here PRESUMING to lecture me on my own lineage. And the answer was, he was clearly wrong

1. Hop Ga is NOT "combined family"

2. I don't do Hop Ga

3. Hop Ga, Lama Pai and Pak Hok are not "the same"

4. Ng YIM Ming was A grandmaster NOT "the" grandmaster

5. oh, and I'm not as far as I am aware, African American

[lkfmdc]

by the way Gene, the David Chin article was great

[The Xia]

by the way Gene, the David Chin article was great

I second that. I'll also add that lkfmdc wrote a great piece on the Lion's Roar arts that explains how the three groups (Lama, Pak Hok, and Hop Gar) came about.
It's right here.
Lion's Roar 101 - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/9358/tibetan.html

[CFT]

Whilst it may be true that a particular lineage may employ a different character to represent their style name, they should be educated enough about other arts in their wider lineage to know that the "hop" in "hop gar" means chivalry/knight rather than combined.

[Firehand]

I watched the clips of Doo Wai and Parella....now that Parella says Doo Wai's kung fu is sloppy Pak Mei...then I wish Parella puts some real Pak Mei clips on youtube...I know many on youtube will enjoy because there isn't too much Pak Mei clips....as for Doo Wai's clips apparently he is very high in his skills...I hope to see more.

As for the Chinese language who pronounces right....as far as I have heard, there are many dialects in Chinese language, I will not comment more about the language because I don't know Chinese.

Ross...you are white...I saw your site.

If Doo Wai's ancestors were not educated....I went to their site...they say Doo Family were imperial physiciains during Tang Dynasty....would emperors allow uneducated people to be their physicians?...I don't know..may be yes and may be no

Now lets return to kung fu.

We are martial artists....I don't know Doo Wai nor I know Parella....I hope from now on anyone who criticizes a style publicly then has to have the dignity to prove it by clips...and we will enjoy them on youtube.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Wow, it seems like a few Doo Wai fans have recently joined the forum here. It's easy to find them, they have only a few posts and they are only on the Doo Wai threads.

OH, and watch me now; I'm going to run over to my school today and video myself so I can show these Doo Wai guys..... - Hardly.

I'm not interested what Doo Wai or his people think of me. If they feel the need to defend their style/teacher against my opinions of the video clips posted, so be it.

Do I care what you Doo Wai guys think of me? again...Hardly. And besides, I'm sure I could post the best video clip in KF history, and you people (Doo Wai People) would bash it incessently. Your just sore about my criticism.

But maybe my criticism is not the first you've heard. After doing a little bit of reading, it seems like you guys have been under fire on several boards and for quite a long time. Hmmm, maybe something to think about. If many many people, over many many years, say the same derogatory things about your kung-fu (or your teachers)..hhmmm, maybe there is something to it.

No one wants to think that what they have learned is poor or low quality. That's why you never hear anyone say: "My teacher was not very good, but he was a good person and did his best to teach me." Everyone we ever hear about is either a 'top disciple', 'had connections to a royal family', 'trained the military', 'killed lots of people', 'was a secret closed-door disciple', 'was one of only a few to learn this rare art', blah blah blah. Where are all the mediocre teachers and practitioneres? How can it be that everyone was such an expert? Didn't anyone suck? I've met plenty of people who's KF sucked...they just didn't know it or admit it. I've been to China several times; I saw lots of people, both in Hong Kong and the Mainland, who's KF sucked. I guess everyone MAGICALLY gets better once the cross the ocean.

It's just like TKD; The joke amongst the Korean community is; they board the plane as a 1st Degree Black belt, as they leave Asia, it's 2nd degree, then as the cross the ocean, it's 3rd degree, and as they deplane, it's 4th degree, customs earns them a 5th degree and by the time they find a place to live and open a school, it's 7th degree or better.

I think Chinese people work the same way. They learn a bit of stuff while in China, they come here as young men, even teenages, they teach westerners for 25 years, then they are in their 40's maybe 50's and are seasoned teachers. It happened all over NY's Chinatown, and I'm sure all over the country.

"BUT WAIT! NOT MY TEACHER! IT COULDN'T BE! HE'S SO GOOD! HE TOLD ME OUR KF WAS SPECIAL AND HE TOLD ME WHAT A GREAT TEACHER HE WAS. I SHOULD KNOW; I STUDIED WITH A KARATE GUY WHEN I WAS 8, AND THEN MET MY TEACHER WHEN I WAS 22 - OF COURSE I CAN TELL GOOD KF FROM BAD KF!"

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I watched the clips of Doo Wai and Parella....now that Parella says Doo Wai's kung fu is sloppy Pak Mei...then I wish Parella puts some real Pak Mei clips on youtube...I know many on youtube will enjoy because there isn't too much Pak Mei clips....as for Doo Wai's clips apparently he is very high in his skills...I hope to see more.

As for the Chinese language who pronounces right....as far as I have heard, there are many dialects in Chinese language, I will not comment more about the language because I don't know Chinese.

Ross...you are white...I saw your site.

If Doo Wai's ancestors were not educated....I went to their site...they say Doo Family were imperial physiciains during Tang Dynasty....would emperors allow uneducated people to be their physicians?...I don't know..may be yes and may be no

Now lets return to kung fu.

We are martial artists....I don't know Doo Wai nor I know Parella....I hope from now on anyone who criticizes a style publicly then has to have the dignity to prove it by clips...and we will enjoy them on youtube.

Who says that they were Imperial Physicians during the Tang Dynasty? Doo Wai? Please,....

And you are not a Doo Wai person? You only just posted on this forum for the first time in the middle of this thread? A bit transparent buddy....

And since you claim not to know Chinese, why comment at all?

The reference to the Chinese is because - NO ONE BELIEVES THAT IT IS EVEN DOO WAI WHO IS RELAYING THESE MESSAGES. That's why the posters can't comment on the Chinese, even through they say that these posts are coming from Doo Wai himself.

Very sad.

AND THANKS FOR LETTING DAVE ROSS KNOW HE IS WHITE. SUPERIOR 'SLEUTHING' ON YOUR PART. BUT YOU ARE VERY VERY WRONG -

Dave Ross isn't white: He's Super-White. He's immune to tanning of any form and as a result of this, he had a fight with the sun. It ended in a draw, so he agreed not to get in the sun's way and the sun agreed not to shine it's lovingingly-warm rays upon his milky white skin. There I said it. I don't care who knows - Dave's secret is out. He couldn't even beat the sun, how pathetic - it's only like 180,000 times the size of the earth...and he still couldn't win. I am repulsed by the fact that we have slept in the same room on many many occasions.

But THAT is a story for another time....

[CFT]

If Doo Wai's ancestors were not educated....I went to their site...they say Doo Family were imperial physiciains during Tang Dynasty....would emperors allow uneducated people to be their physicians?...I don't know..may be yes and may be no

Hell no!!! The Son of Heaven treated medically by an illiterate peasant? Not possible period. More than likely he would have needed to pass Imperial exams before even being part of the Imperial medical staff, let alone the Emperor's personal physician.

Just like modern medics the physicians of Imperial China would have needed to be literature to learn from the classical medical texts. He would also need to be literate to write prescriptions for the Imperial pharmacy to make up.

So assuming that Doo Wai continued in his family's learning tradition, I would expect that he is fluent in Chinese and informed about Chinese martial arts in general. If he knows about the connection between Lama Paai and Hop Gar then he should know the correct Chinese character for "hop".

[Ironman]

Hell no!!! The Son of Heaven treated medically by an illiterate peasant? Not possible period. More than likely he would have needed to pass Imperial exams before even being part of the Imperial medical staff, let alone the Emperor's personal physician.

Just like modern medics the physicians of Imperial China would have needed to be literature to learn from the classical medical texts. He would also need to be literate to write prescriptions for the Imperial pharmacy to make up.

So assuming that Doo Wai continued in his family's learning tradition, I would expect that he is fluent in Chinese and informed about Chinese martial arts in general. If he knows about the connection between Lama Paai and Hop Gar then he should know the correct Chinese character for "hop".

He does....

[Ironman]

Wow, it seems like a few Doo Wai fans have recently joined the forum here. It's easy to find them, they have only a few posts and they are only on the Doo Wai threads.

OH, and watch me now; I'm going to run over to my school today and video myself so I can show these Doo Wai guys..... - Hardly.

I'm not interested what Doo Wai or his people think of me. If they feel the need to defend their style/teacher against my opinions of the video clips posted, so be it.

Do I care what you Doo Wai guys think of me? again...Hardly. And besides, I'm sure I could post the best video clip in KF history, and you people (Doo Wai People) would bash it incessently. Your just sore about my criticism.

But maybe my criticism is not the first you've heard. After doing a little bit of reading, it seems like you guys have been under fire on several boards and for quite a long time. Hmmm, maybe something to think about. If many many people, over many many years, say the same derogatory things about your kung-fu (or your teachers)..hhmmm, maybe there is something to it.

No one wants to think that what they have learned is poor or low quality. That's why you never hear anyone say: "My teacher was not very good, but he was a good person and did his best to teach me." Everyone we ever hear about is either a 'top disciple', 'had connections to a royal family', 'trained the military', 'killed lots of people', 'was a secret closed-door disciple', 'was one of only a few to learn this rare art', blah blah blah. Where are all the mediocre teachers and practitioneres? How can it be that everyone was such an expert? Didn't anyone suck? I've met plenty of people who's KF sucked...they just didn't know it or admit it. I've been to China several times; I saw lots of people, both in Hong Kong and the Mainland, who's KF sucked. I guess everyone MAGICALLY gets better once the cross the ocean.

It's just like TKD; The joke amongst the Korean community is; they board the plane as a 1st Degree Black belt, as they leave Asia, it's 2nd degree, then as the cross the ocean, it's 3rd degree, and as they deplane, it's 4th degree, customs earns them a 5th degree and by the time they find a place to live and open a school, it's 7th degree or better.

I think Chinese people work the same way. They learn a bit of stuff while in China, they come here as young men, even teenages, they teach westerners for 25 years, then they are in their 40's maybe 50's and are seasoned teachers. It happened all over NY's Chinatown, and I'm sure all over the country.

"BUT WAIT! NOT MY TEACHER! IT COULDN'T BE! HE'S SO GOOD! HE TOLD ME OUR KF WAS SPECIAL AND HE TOLD ME WHAT A GREAT TEACHER HE WAS. I SHOULD KNOW; I STUDIED WITH A KARATE GUY WHEN I WAS 8, AND THEN MET MY TEACHER WHEN I WAS 22 - OF COURSE I CAN TELL GOOD KF FROM BAD KF!"

Yes, I agree with some of your points.... Our motto is: "The proof is in the results" and Buddy we get results in White Tiger Gung Fu and Qigong ....

[Firehand]

Hell no!!! The Son of Heaven treated medically by an illiterate peasant? Not possible period. More than likely he would have needed to pass Imperial exams before even being part of the Imperial medical staff, let alone the Emperor's personal physician.

Just like modern medics the physicians of Imperial China would have needed to be literature to learn from the classical medical texts. He would also need to be literate to write prescriptions for the Imperial pharmacy to make up.

So assuming that Doo Wai continued in his family's learning tradition, I would expect that he is fluent in Chinese and informed about Chinese martial arts in general. If he knows about the connection between Lama Paai and Hop Gar then he should know the correct Chinese character for "hop".

I went to the site whitetigerkungfu.com and saw Doo Wai's photos with the celebrities..asked myself would the celebrities be a friend with an uneducated and illiterate person?...of course NO.

Plus I read Doo wai's blog on his myspace page...I liked it.

I think he is ignoring your questions...he doesn't need to prove himself here....he has proven himself to the world already.

Anyway...as I said above...it would much credible and better if anyone who has something to say about a system or style..better him to prove by clips and we will watch on youtube