LauGar KungFu Origins - any evidence?

[DaveTart]

Dual stick form (Kwun Jorn Doi Chark) for 3rd degree

Can I ask how long that has been in the BKFA syllabus? I've been training since the early 90's, and the only time I've seen that performed was when I went to University in about 2001.
AFAIK when our club split (along with alot of other clubs back in the 80's before the whole gaurdians thing was set up) the only weapons were: Broadsword, Butterfly Knives, Tiger Spear (trident), and the knife/stick defenses.

[laugarkuen]

You can ask but I haven't the foggyest . I will as my Sifu though. He is one of the Guardians so will hopefully know.

[Mano Mano]

Originally Posted by laugarkuen
Whilst the stance in journ sau is very similar to wing chung and the way the form is performed I would say that is the only similarity in that I have seen the movements from the first two forms in many arts. Particularly southern ones.

Which Particular Southern styles are you referring to.

[CFT]

I've also seen video of a BKFA Lau Gar chin na doi chaak. Two man drill with chin na and anti-chin na.

[DaveTart]

Which Particular Southern styles are you referring to.

I'm beginning to think uploading a video to YouTube so you can see might be the easiest way to explain all this, you could see all our forms and see for yourself.

The first two forms are very basic and therefore cover very basic moves (inner blocks, outerblocks, harvest hand, rolling punch, palm heel strikes, a knee stomp etc) as so they are similar to most styles - how many styles don't have outblocks in them!

I've done a bit of HungKuen (up in preston) and recognised several things, and from the few praying mantis videos I've watched there seems to be similarity there too.

I've also seen video of a BKFA Lau Gar chin na doi chaak. Two man drill with chin na and anti-chin na.

Again, I'd love to know when this came into the BKFA. It certainly wasn't there when we split, and I didn't see it even when I did train with the BKFA about 5years ago.

[laugarkuen]

Yeah I have seen it to though as far as I know it is not part of the official syllabus. We do a lot of things in Lau Gar that are not as I have mentioned before.

Master Yau and the guardians have a wealth of experience between them. Do any of you expect it to be solely Lau Gar and nothing else. Hell we even do lion dance but again its not on the syllabus.

Dave, if I remember correctly you do lau gar with a shaolin twist. (Now officially you should not be being taught the lau gar syllabus at all if you if you have split from the BKFA as it is copyrighted and the property of Master Yau. Not having a dig, just a comment.)

As the syllabus is Master Yaus and he is still alive, things get changed now and then and if you are not in the BKFA you will notice the difference. Even in the BKFA we notice a difference from instructor to instructor

[DaveTart]

Yeah I have seen it to though as far as I know it is not part of the official syllabus. We do a lot of things in Lau Gar that are not as I have mentioned before.

Master Yau and the guardians have a wealth of experience between them. Do any of you expect it to be solely Lau Gar and nothing else.

Oh no, of course not. We do alot of JuJitsu bits and bobs (for self defense) as a few of our instructors are trained in that too.

I'm just trying to work out what the "core" syllabus is/was. hence being interested to see which bits seem additional to me.

Dave, if I remember correctly you do lau gar with a shaolin twist. (Now officially you should not be being taught the lau gar syllabus at all if you if you have split from the BKFA as it is copyrighted and the property of Master Yau. Not having a dig, just a comment.)

Our Syllabus is identical to the BKFA one as it was in the 1980's when we split, except: We've added a few knifeblocks (with the admission they are "additional") and 1 -4 punch/kick blocks start from stance and not u-bay.

(as for copyrighted, there is no copyright symbol on the syllabus or anywhere else I can see. He has tried to trademark the name "Lau Gar" though, which is a totally different thing)

As the syllabus is Master Yaus and he is still alive, things get changed now and then and if you are not in the BKFA you will notice the difference. Even in the BKFA we notice a difference from instructor to instructor

Of course, you always get that! As one of our instructors says "it's the same, but different".

[Wong Ying Home]

I have seen the two man chin na form you mentioned, and it is an exact copy of a chin na two man 72 lock form currently available on dvd that is a northern form.

Which was not on sale for more than two or so years

you cant copyright a family name either...Lau..Gar meaning Lau family..how many Lau families are there

[DaveTart]

I have seen the two man chin na form you mentioned, and it is an exact copy of a chin na two man 72 lock form currently available on dvd that is a northern form.

Which style is it from?

And TBH, I don't really care about that - we already know that is a addition to the style. It's the core style I'm interested in.

[Mano Mano]

DaveTart
The reason I asked about which styles you were referring to was when you replied to because Paul T England you said

as for Kay Bon So Far having wingchun moves in it, I'm not convinced: Basic inner blocks, outer blocks and so on could come from any number of styles.

Admittedly most Southern styles & a few Northern styles have these inner blocks, outer blocks and so on, however they very rarely follow or use the same hand movements.

[stainlesschi]

ive done the two man chin-na routine whilst i was in the bkfa as far the dual stick form it was there at least 3 years ago...

[DaveTart]

DaveTart
The reason I asked about which styles you were referring to was when you replied to because Paul T England you said Admittedly most Southern styles & a few Northern styles have these inner blocks, outer blocks and so on, however they very rarely follow or use the same hand movements.

TBH I don't know enough about other styles to comment. The moves are so basic they are pretty universal. I really should pull my finger out, and get a video up so you can see it and let me know what you all think.

[Mano Mano]

The wing chun moves Paul T England was referring to are not universal for some reason wing chun & Lau Gar.
That implies either one comes from the other or both from the same source

[Su Lin]

Hey there DaveTart, where abouts do you train?

Louise

[DaveTart]

Hey there DaveTart, where abouts do you train?

Louise

I started training in the early/mid 90's with the UMAI under Kevin Brewerton based in Farnham (Hampshire). Like lot's of people, Kevin split from the BKFA in the 80's.
During the wilderness years surrounding university I trained in all sorts of clubs/styles including two BKFA clubs, one in exeter and one in Cardiff. I'm now back in Farnham which is currently headed up by Damien McLoughlin now that Kevin is back in the states.