LauGar KungFu Origins - any evidence?

[DaveTart]

Oh for ****s' sake. it doesn't get any easier:

This place teaches "LauGar" apparently:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar1.html

now, I would assume (since it seems to be for the most part a HungGar school) that their Lau Gar is the stuff that turns up in Hung Gar, as already mentioned. However, they say it contains 2 hand forms, and one staff form - whereas all the other Hung Gar sites state that the "Lau Gar" they do is one hand form, one staff form. also this:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar2.html seems suspiciously like Bac Pye Jurn.

Wonder what on earth they are teaching??!

[laugarkuen]

I posted the invite in the main bit but for those who missed it....

On the 22nd of Jan at the Sugden Centre in Manchester (UK) we are doing a free Lau Gar seminar. It will be from 6pm till 8pm and I'm not sure what we are covering yet .

There will be two Guardians (Steven Burton and David Eccles) and myself teaching. If you are in or near Manchester and want to come along then phone me on 07984 423857 or email me at: michael@manchesterdragons.co.uk .

I'm limiting the places to 30 so you must pre-book.

Thanks,

Michael

[mok]

Oh for ****s' sake. it doesn't get any easier:

This place teaches "LauGar" apparently:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar1.html

now, I would assume (since it seems to be for the most part a HungGar school) that their Lau Gar is the stuff that turns up in Hung Gar, as already mentioned. However, they say it contains 2 hand forms, and one staff form - whereas all the other Hung Gar sites state that the "Lau Gar" they do is one hand form, one staff form. also this:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar2.html seems suspiciously like Bac Pye Jurn.

Wonder what on earth they are teaching??!

Yup - If you go back to their root site (http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/theart.html) it says Hung Gar all over it.

Also, the guy on the picture from the page you posted is wearing a t-shirt with big red characters saying "Hung Kuen" on it

[DaveTart]

Yes... but...
They also teach:
Shaolin Wing Chun
Tiger Boxing
Plum Blossom Boxing
Tibetan Praying Mantis
Shaolin Flower Boxing
Dragon Boxing
Golden Eagle
Monkey Boxing
Eight Drunken Immortals
Sap Fu Chaw
Shaolin Five Animals
Shaolin Ten Animals

Which I'm pretty sure aren't all part of the Hung Kuen syllabus! So it might be they teach a bit of our Lau Gar as well...

[CFT]

I've never heard of Tibetan Praying Mantis before.
Tibetan Lama and Tibetan White Crane mainly.

[Kaylun]

Oh for ****s' sake. it doesn't get any easier:

This place teaches "LauGar" apparently:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar1.html

now, I would assume (since it seems to be for the most part a HungGar school) that their Lau Gar is the stuff that turns up in Hung Gar, as already mentioned. However, they say it contains 2 hand forms, and one staff form - whereas all the other Hung Gar sites state that the "Lau Gar" they do is one hand form, one staff form. also this:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar2.html seems suspiciously like Bac Pye Jurn.

Wonder what on earth they are teaching??!

Hung Gar has two empty hand forms with the name Lau in their syllabus Lau Gar fist is the one that is is in most schools do and Lau Gar Palm is the other

[Ben Gash]

I know both forms and they're Hung, the frst one is the standard Lam Sai Wing line form, and the second one is like a more dynamic condensed version (kinda like in Songshan Shaolin where the Xiao form is often the harder one).
The Tibetian mantis form is the fairly typical 7 star Bung Bo form, the rest of it is a collection of genreal Sil Lum forms that Lai Ng Sam learned somewhere.

[Ben Gash]

Oh for ****s' sake. it doesn't get any easier:

This place teaches "LauGar" apparently:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar1.html

now, I would assume (since it seems to be for the most part a HungGar school) that their Lau Gar is the stuff that turns up in Hung Gar, as already mentioned. However, they say it contains 2 hand forms, and one staff form - whereas all the other Hung Gar sites state that the "Lau Gar" they do is one hand form, one staff form. also this:
http://www.mousavikungfu.co.uk/laugar2.html seems suspiciously like Bac Pye Jurn.

Wonder what on earth they are teaching??!

How can a very common southern style hand technique and some really pretty generic Nan Sil Lum principles seem suspiciously like Bac Pye Jurn????

[Cobalt60]

Hi there fellow Cma/Mma/Ma practitioners

This is in fact my maiden post so I hope I do this right.

I have been avidly following this thread and would just like to say im so glad that so many knowledgable people are on the this thread.

I have been practicing Lau Gar for almost three years now (year off due to broken elbow!) I am currently practing in bournemouth and it is a non bkfa club, 'IMAO' Independant Martial Arts Organisation. Has anyone heard of it? Apparently Humphrie Broome is the founder of it?

My previous Sifu was Andy Lee who used to teach in poole and christchurch, I went away for a year and then came back to find this IMAO organisation had come along and taken everything over. I have been to the website www.imao.org and its a few pages scanned into the computer by the looks of things.

I now train under a guy called barry (cant remember surname only been back a few weeks) Does anyone know of what happened about a year back, was there another re-shuffle?

I have been reading a VERY similar thread on martialartsplanet.com (which seems to longer exist as of today, webpage will not load at all!) so have found this thread which seems to have much more info on it. (any questions about the martialartsplanet thread just ask.)

The new sifu has been teaching us sern ping choi but has said that instead of blocking across the body, its best to block diagonally down across the body, do non bkfa clubs often teach variations? As this would mean that it could become even more difficult to trace the lineage of Lau Gar if the techniques have been dilouted?

Apologies for the long post. Hope I havent caused or re-hashed any old things.

Thanks

[Su Lin]

Hey there!
The thread on map is the same as on here,but there are also a few others on Lau there. I think it is having technical issues today.

I also go to a non BKFA club and that's an interesting idea about sern ping choi. Our club has some variations too.


Happy posting

[Cobalt60]

Thanks for the warm welcome....

Do you guys do many other variations? And what non-bkfa club do you belong to? This is what I meant when I said this could mean to further difficulty tracing the lineage of the style.

Another Variation we do is in Jorn Sau where when you block across the body (after the turn to the left) our sifu says you can elbow strike and block other than just block....

It all very confusing, ha ha ha.

Has anyone actually got the original syllubus who still practices and knows the variations? Or has anyone published them on a media streaming site so that people can compare their own styles?

Thanks

[Su Lin]

I know quite a lot of our stuff differs,even if just slightly. I know our jorn sau differs,from watching the ex BKFA guy who trains with us
My club is www.shaolinlaugarkungfu.co.uk . My sifu had Shaolin training too,so we have a combination really and we tend to go deeper and lower in stances than BKFA lau people.
There are a few forms done by BKFA people on the map threads, which I can show you when the site is back up again.
There arent many Lau Gar vids online,but I know you can buy syllabus dvds from the BKFA.



I may get round to doing a vid of it at some point.

[DaveTart]

Hey Cobalt...
Humphrey is a very good teacher. He trained directly under master yau I believe. The IMAO is a good club to be in. I regularly show up at their tournaments and the level of ability is normally very good.
I train in Farnham at a UMAI (united martial arts international) club, started by Kevin "the Jedi" Brewerton.

As for variations, I have trained at several lau gar clubs (both BKFA and others, and not seen that variation of sern ping choi. Surely the point is to keep up right and cover the whoel body, hence a horizontal block.
I would check with Humphrey if I were you as it might be possible that it's just a mis-interpreting of the technique. (having said that, i'm not getting into a "what is RIGHT" argument).

As for jorn sau, that makes sense - you could easily interpret the blocks on that move as including an elbow strike... you wouldn't even have to change the move to show it. cool!

*****EDIT****
as Su Lin says, there are variations to be found everywhere "it's the same, but different" as one of our instructors says. However, that doesn't mean "Anything Goes!" as it would descend into nonsense. I guess what you need to ask yourself, is WHY things are different, where the differences come from, and most importantly - do they work?
Our club/instructors always accept small differences in forms etc, so long as the person can justify it. There is nothing worse than someone blindly doing something and having no idea why, or why it's different from someone elses way!
*************

as for the thread on MAP, i post there too. always good to get a wide audience.

[DaveTart]

speaking of the MAP thread - someone has just starting talking about senior walking techniques: The Shadow Walking Kicks.

Anyone know what he means? I've never heard of any walking technique refered to as that...

[AndyM]

Could everyone just be a little cautious in dealing out information to Davetart.

Dave.
If you can be more specific about where and who you train with, then I'll drop the suspicion, but seeing as my account here has been hacked, and you've somehow gotten my email address.....

Let's just say I'm watching you very carefully.