getting qi from the tree

[diz84]

the other night me and my friend was at the park,
(we smoked some weed b4 we went)
and i dont know much about tai chi but we mucked around and got power from the tree. Since we were a bit high i felt the qi from the tree really easy to get when i was high, my question is what excersises can uo wif the tree? like when u get the qi how do i keep it ?
sorry if i offended anyone...

d

[Crimson Phoenix]

Apparently you already know how to get the qi from the grass :D
Seriously, I heard of an exercise in which you hug the tree. But what I don't recall exactly is the part about your position in regard to that of the sun: I know that you can either get the qi from the tree or make the tree regulate your own qi depending on wether you hug the side opposite to the sun or the side where you have the sun shining in your back...but I don't remember which is which. It follows the theory of yin and yang though, and it should be easy to logically retrieve which side is wich...I'd say that you should be opposite to the sun to get the qi, but then again I'm not sure...
Phoenix

[Braden]

"Hugging the tree" is a descriptive name for an exercise which doesn't literally involve hugging trees.

But to answer the original question, in traditional taoist thought, you can indeed exchange or absorb chi from trees as well as from a variety of other sources.

If you're interested in this, you should seek instruction in qigong and/or the internal martial arts.

[Wongsifu]

you dont actually want to get qi from the tree its like stealing its life force, but you can discharge oyur chi into the tree because the tree gets negative energy thrives off it and in return gives us positive energy we thrive on, just put both hands on the tree, give it energy and let the tree purify it and give it back to you.

erm i dont really know if it is karmically correct though because you dont know if the tree wants to take your negative so i wouldnt reccomend doing it,

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

[wufupaul]

I read an article in a KF magazine a few years back, I'll see if I can find it. The chi gung guy in the article suggested pine, cause it had the most chi, or oak. I have heard my teacher talk about it before, he used oak trees. I tried it on a pine tree once, and I didn't feel a darn tootin' thing though.

"But I hope you leave enough room for my fist, cause I'm going to ram it into your stomach!"-Arnold Schwarzenegger

[IronFist]

Yeah Wongsifu I was gonna say, that sounds like kind of bad karma there.

I read a post once many years ago (aol board) that said if you wait around a tree, you will almost get an "answer" as to whether or not you can take energy from it.

I guess a tree who wants some good karma is willing to loan you some energy?

I can't see doing this every day. Maybe if I had a big fight coming up I'd borrow some qi from a tree, though :P just kidding.

Is it bad karma to cut the grass?

Iron

[Crimson Phoenix]

Braden, nonononono, I know the zhang zhuan, I heard about the exercise of hugging a real tree, and as a matter of fact some doctors in France says they can speed up patients recovery or even get reduction of autism for that (I won't judge on that topic).
And NO it is not bad karma, you're not stealing away the tree's life force...obviously, the tree won't wither if you do it, right?? it cannot be bad karma, since humans are a part of nature, and living implies an exchange of energy from every part of nature to every part of nature, it's the way, it's life...it's not as bad a karma as for example cutting roses without any other reasons than offering them to your girlfriend, or even cutting some spinach t oeat them...right??...and if you follow buddhist cosmogony, plants are not a good thing to reincarnate in, it's even worse than animals...so if you go there, maybe getting qi from the tree actually implies that the tree gets good karma for helping you out...so if you throw the karma issue in that, at worse it is neutral karma, but certainly not bad...

[Fish of Fury]

simplified, plants "inhale" carbon dioxide and "exhale" oxygen, humans inhale oxygen and exhale CO2...so we have a mutually supportive symbiotic relationship.
maybe the same thing applies to Qi.
ie. our "bad" Qi = "good" Qi for trees, and vice versa. ???

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[wujidude]

from www.wuji.com/treeqigong.htm:
" Tree Qi Gong

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Let's start from the basics: everything is energy, everything is energy at various levels of vibration; matter to light, body-thoughts-spirit. One way to think about energy is as if it's water in its many forms: an ice cube, water, steam, or humidity.

Though what I'll be talking about here is primarily from the Lung Men Daoist Qi Gong (a parent of bagua zhang) just about every branch of Qi Gong has a version of tree Qi Gong. Pa Kua has tree qi king in the basic level of 'Bird Enters Forest' .

The basic principle of tree Qi Gong is that trees are the guardians of the earth. They take what are toxins from other life forms and feed on it, transforming it into useful products for the planet; they are the filters of the planet.

Every form of life, or matter (energy) also has a type of energy field around it to some extent. Just as a sound doesn't really go to a certain distance and stop, energy and fields of energy are much the same way. Energy radiates out in all directions from each being, just getting fainter as it gets further away from it's central source. This means that beyond our perception these energy fields interact and blend to a certain extent influencing each other. As we practice the zhan zhuang and certain Qi Gong over a period of time we can begin to feel this field energy emanating from us. This feeling of qi is first between our hands, as we begin to develop our Qi Gong and increase our own qi and awareness of it, our vitality increases and our qi shines brighter - stronger. The way to develop this is practicing the zhan zhuang daily. This is a very slow and individual process, training with a Qi Gong master can accelerate this process.

If we have an internal weakness or sickness, instead of building up a reservoir of qi as we practice the qi is directed to heal the illness or weakness. If our minds are busy and can't calm down, much of the qi is used up by the thoughts and nervous energy expenditure (Stress depletes much qi). Practicing too much fa-jin movements also depletes our qi reservoir. The mind uses up much energy in it's functioning which is why basic meditation and learning to calm and focus the mind is very important. As our health improves and our mind learns to center we begin to build up our qi reservoir.

Once our qi begins to build, along with our awareness, we not only become aware of our own qi but also that around us. A good example of this is being in a room when a depressed or angry person enters; the vibes change. Keep in mind all energy isn't all the same so some types of energy may: flow, mix, merge, change, irritate or bump into each other. We're talking about a limitless levels of vibrations.

The basic assumption of tree Qi Gong is that trees also feed on and filter pure energy - all vibrations. Through our practice we can open up and permit a greater exchange of qi with plants for healing, insight or knowledge. Even without specific tree Qi Gong or being aware of it, anytime we're around a forest, or wooded area we are benefiting from a boost of our own energy by being so close and exposed to the trees. Try doing taiji or basic meditation in an old growth forest, the energy is so thick you can almost see it (some people can see it). As with all Qi Gong, tension - muscular or mental inhibit the flow or exchange of qi. If we walk relaxed through a wooded area we are basically doing a minor type of tree Qi Gong. Anytime we practice around a tree or healthy plants we have an exchange of qi with the surroundings and we benefit on very subtle levels.

The most basic tree Qi Gong is practicing our zhan zhuang with a tree. Begin zhan zhuang until you can feel the qi flow between your palms, then use your palms and try to feel the qi flow, aura, of the tree. When you feel the current of the tree, this is the place to stop and use 'listening' energy. This is your practice. When you can feel the tree's qi flow, this creates a strong circuit, your energy gets hooked into the flow of the tree's qi stream. If you can't feel the energy between your palms just practice your zhan zhuang keeping your palms about 6" away from the tree. Another method is sitting in a meditation posture slightly away from the trunk, focus on the color of the bark as a column of qi, then see your qi the same color and merging with the tree. Open up all cells and pores, blending with the tree's qi.

Though there are specific visualizations and certain exercises to do with some styles, this basic method of focusing on feeling the energy connection I believe is the best. We permit the energy to flow as it should, and the changes and cleansing happens naturally, without forcing or interfering in any way. Just open up to what you feel or completely empty your mind.

Though in some styles of tree Qi Gong there are specific instructions of what to do with each tree and what each tree is good for, personally I don't think things can be classified so specifically considering we're all different and complex. What one person needs, or enjoys is completely wrong for another. As you practice and increase your awareness; what you'll find is that each tree, not merely species, has it's own personality. The range spans all feelings: happy, sad, healing, angry, neutral, energetic, calming, aggressive, strong, soft . . . Also the time of year changes the feeling of the tree's energy current. Don't stand by a tree you feel a negative response from. This energy-link is a healing-link, a purification of our system. The calmer and emptier our minds are the greater the exchange, there is less resistance to the exchange of qi flow.

Try this 'listening-energy' with all types of plants, house plants as well. Spider plants, sanseverias, and African violets are considered good energy plants but see what you feel. If you're ill you may not want to over burden a small-newly planted tree or non-vigorous house plant.

Is there a certain spot in a park where you like to sit, read a book or just rest? In your yard? Check out the plants around you.

One theory of tree Qi Gong is that there is a subtle exchange, cellular, of information whenever the energy-link is great. So. . . on some level we are learning or absorbing information when we practice.

The size of the tree makes a difference, the location of the tree will make a difference. If you don't feel comfortable practicing your tree Qi Gong in public you may just sit by a tree with a book, pretend to be reading the book, hands in zhan zhuang position on your lap. In some clubs and arts you hear specific instructions to stand with your back to the north or south, only stand by such and such a tree as you practice to absorb the proper energy of the area.. Master Tchoung would say walk around, feel the area - you'll find the right spot and right direction. If it feels right then the energy currents must be in harmony.

The following is a list of some trees that certain Qi Gong masters agree have these characteristics. Don't take them as law however, everyone is different. But, if you can't feel the energy of trees yet, these are a good place to start with. The colors are from the Five Element theory of Qinese medicine. The color being that of the bark. Which of the five element colors does it come closest to? It's thought that each tree/color benefits the organ associated with it. You visualize the tress's qi and your qi the same color and merging. Sometimes the colors are merely used in healing meditations for specific organs. As you practice and your awareness increases, trust your feelings and disregard the lists.

Some tree Qi Gong methods visualize drawing the earth or tree's qi in through the feet, filling the body, merging with the tree and extending up to the crown of the tree. Another method, usually by a weeping tree, drawing the tree's qi in through the crown of the head, filling the body, then sinking the qi into the ground.

Tree
Color
Organ
Element

Apple
Red
Heart/sm int.
Fire

Poplar
White
Lungs/lg int.
Metal

Cypress
black
kidney/bladder
Water

Pine
green
liver/gll bl
wood

Willow
Yellow
spleen/stomach
earth


According to information from a workshop with Zhang Jie here are some characteristics: cypress and cedars are thought to nourish yin qi and reduce heat. willows draw dampness out, elms calm the mind and strengthens the stomach, maples reduce pain, locusts clear internal heat and balances the heart, firs clear bruises and reduce swellings, hawthorns aid digestion and lower blood pressure, birches detoxify and clear dampness, plums nourish the spleen and stomach.

One method I find working through my own tree Qi Gong practice is drawing in the tree's qi with each inhalation. Though most tree Qi Gong work in the 'aura' of the tree; I've found that touching the trunk and visualizing inhaling the qi through the lao kung point, then either sinking it to the tantien or grounding it is very powerful.


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Copyright © 1998 ATDale/Internal Wushu Arts"

[Bak Mei]

I discovered this as a young pot head hippy, before I began studying internal arts -- the truth.

At twilight, sitting in my girlfriend's backyard, I would see the slight arua of a group of trees about 40 yards away. As I focused on the trees and nothing else I saw their arua grow until it encompassed everything. At that time I took it as its energy connecting to the universal energy. Since that time my respect for trees has grown. I never truly felt chi then.

I am now a student of an internal master and a believer. I have now felt it though it is new to me. I love trees. I live at the beach and love it, but the one thing I miss is a big park with trees.

Stillness in the heart of motion.

[PlasticSquirrel]

it leads to bad karma to steal qi from trees. this is done in china, but some more advanced people advise strongly against it. try it more, and you will eventually kill the tree.

of course, that is just for absorbing qi. i'm not sure about regulating your qi by using the tree's... that's an interesting topic, though. could we both balance our qi as well as give the tree useful qi? if we could... well, it would be cool.

oops-- forgot to tell you what to do with the qi/how to store it. if there are no good teachers around, the best you can do is get a good book and practice what it teaches you. what you'll need is some basic abdominal breathing and a few exercises to open up vessels, meridians, channels, and points. for this, i would highly recommend yang jwing-ming's book qigong for health and martial arts. it gives a very good look at the different approaches and gives a lot of information on external, internal, medical, and martial qigong. don't expect to be able to do everything right away, though. some stuff takes time. :)

[This message was edited by PlasticSquirrel on 08-20-01 at 12:41 PM.]

[Crimson Phoenix]

The tree is more part of nature than any human can be if not enlightened enough...the tree has a direct connection with heaven qi and earth qi...I would be interested in seeing someone pump so much qi from a tree that the tree dies...not that I like to harm plants...
I tell you, it's NOT bad karma...it's being part of nature, it's neutral karma, you're not killing or vampirising anyone....if you take a bucket out of the sea, does it make a big difference?? A mature tree can handle more qi than you'll ever have in your own life...another example: in chinese qi theory during sexual intercourse, the man loses qi while the woman gains it...so is your gf building up bad karma everytime you make love to her? And you, when you realize that, do you get bad karma by making love to her while knowing that you build up her bad karma? It is an endless wheel...
Western minds have always seen much more in the buddhist concepts of karma and reincarnation than the buddhist themselves really meant...as we say here in France we try to be "more royalist than the king"...

BTW, great posts, Bak Mei and Wuji

[IronFist]

Crimson said:

and if you follow buddhist cosmogony, plants are not a good thing to reincarnate in, it's even worse than animals...

I've never heard anything about being able to be reincarnated as a tree. I always assumed plants were conscienceless, and just like extensions of the eart. Has anyone else heard this?

so is your gf building up bad karma everytime you make love to her? And you, when you realize that, do you get bad karma by making love to her while knowing that you build up her bad karma?

You making love to her is a conscience choice on your part. Who said anything about it being "bad" energy she recieves?

Iron

[Crimson Phoenix]

that's my point, ironfist...it is stupid to say that: the girl doesn't receive bad karma even if she takes away some of your qi, and reciprocally you don't get bad karma while making love to her....IF she got bad karma for draining your qi, then you'd get bad karma in return from making love to her while being genuinely aware that she'll build up bad karma during the act...BUT it doesn't work this way...at worse she turns your mind away from enlightenment for a moment but deep down inside it is your choice, you fell to the pleasure of flesh, fine, you'll lose sight of enlightenment until your brain gets rid of the sexual excitation...but you won't build bad karma, you'll just lose some precious time...
So in the same way, exchanging qi with a tree is not bad karma, it can be neutral or even good karma, but definitely not bad...
As for reincarnation, you must remember that there is not 1 buddhism, but many...everywhere where humans are dealt with, there are different views and dissensions...in buddhism it happened too, there was a great schism and now there are countless types of buddhism, each with their own theories and meethods...
Anyway, there is something worse than reincarnation in plants: reincarnation in hungry ghosts, eternally unsatisfied, eternally hungry and thirsty but burnt everytime they touch food or drinks...now that was a bad karma!!

[dhyana]

Crimson said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and if you follow buddhist cosmogony, plants are not a good thing to reincarnate in, it's even worse than animals...
[/quote]


Well, no offense -- but if you studied Buddhist cosmogony, then you would know that you CANNOT be reincarnated as a plant.

We have:
- Hell-Beings
- Hungry Ghosts
- Animals
- Humans
- Asuras (some place these below humans)
- Gods

Plants are not included in the realms.

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"You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They KNOW it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt."
- Robert M. Pirsig in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"