Mr Punch's Brand Spanking New Blog

[Mr Punch]

One more comment, I'm sure you already know this but for the sake of other readers - I view carbs as fuel for the muscles and protein as first aid. For the type of lifting workout I do I don't burn appreciable carbs so I can pretty much ignore having to refuel. I do however stress/tear muscle so I need to focus on the protein. ...

Sure. I was only doing protein after workouts, but then I got from Berardi (again!) that you need the carbs to up the insulin to transport the protein, hence the carbs increase.

At our age mate, esp as a newb I certainly feel that every session's tearing some ****! Don't get DOMS (yet - with these weights) at all much though, feel good generally, and am lifting more each session as I said.

Might change - watch this space when I hit the hypertrophy and strength parts of the periodization!

[Toby]

Sure. I was only doing protein after workouts, but then I got from Berardi (again!) that you need the carbs to up the insulin to transport the protein, hence the carbs increase.

It's my understanding that insulin has a greater effect in transporting carbs than protein. I'm not sure what stimulates protein digestion, transport and usage in repairing muscle damage. I've got some material on it but I don't recall offhand and can't be bothered reading it again. At any rate I'm happy with protein, milk, Milo. I reckon that gives enough of a balance for my needs on my lifting program. If I wanted to mix it up I'd consider adding/swapping bananas, honey.

[Toby]

I also often choose fruit for the fast absorbing carbs for recovery (pectin is said to be good, right?) so maybe the combo of Weider protein and fruit is causing the... chi...

Maybe. I usually eat about 4 pieces of fruit and a litre of milk for lunch (on top of the morning post-workout shake, a bowl of cereal and a coffee for breakfast) but I don't get the ... chi ... issue at all.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Here is my two cents worth...I won't spend a lot of time on diet, I'm probably the last one to seek that advice from...but everything is better with hot sauce.

As for lifting, I too like intense workouts with short rest periods between sets...around 30-60 seconds...call it the ADD workout. I enjoy the intensity and it builds your cardio. Dropping down in weight to get the last few reps is bueno as it fatigues the muscles more...breaking them down to be built back up.

Here are a few suggestions to keep things fresh...try a heavy and a light day...one with fewer reps more weight and the opposite on light days...two change up the order in which you do your routiene...if you start with chest and back go to legs and arms..for example...keep shocking your body...it will fall into a comfort zone.
Thirdly try adding a new exercise to your workouts or rotate different chest workouts...some dumbell, some machine, some cable exercises. Also, if your schedule allows it change the time or days that you do your weights.

I also do yoga and recommend you either do it at the beginning of your day, seperately in the morning or at the end of your workout...I've tried doing boxing or cardio afterwords and you're just so relaxed, its pretty much a waste. Yoga would be great after your kung fu or isometrics...I even do it on a 'light day' of cardio and abs...its just such a great counter balance to hard contact boxing/MMA (for me). l recommend at least yoga twice a week...great for core, balance, and relaxation...plus if you take it at a gym/studio there's usually some nice eye candy.
Yoga will NOT hamper your muscle recovery.

I'm not sure about your source on Aerobic endurance and weight training...unless your a marathoner or triathlete, almost all the collegiate athletes do both quite effectively...that's something you might have to figure out on your own...I definitely think weight training is compatible with anaerobic exercise, sparring, boxing, martial arts etc.

Hope that helps...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

1) If I can't finish the required number of reps I've been changing down ASAP and finishing the number with a lower weight to go out on a high note. Is this a good idea?

2) I can usually finish the reps with the weights I've chosen (though of course, sometimes it's struggle), but then I find 75 secs too short to recover so I'm not so strict in keeping to the recovery period. Is this bad? Should I choose slightly lighter weights so I can stick to the timing, should I just fight through it even if it means not being able to complete the final set, or am I OK in extending the rest period by 10-20 secs?

try not to overthink this too much. if your not on a specific program, it doesnt really matter. if you shorten the rest periods and do drop sets as described you'll stimulate growth. if you take your time and finish each set you'll stimulate strength gains. if you go by how your feeling for that day, you'll keep your body guessing. anywhich way you made it to the gym and theres a net gain. now if your on a specific program or have very specific goals that changes things. if your bodybuilding, shorter rests and drop sets are ideal for the most part (heavy sets have their place as well). if your concerned about nothing but strength, or your doing a program like sheiko, 5x5, smolov, etc. then you want to take as long as you need between sets.

this is a sample sheiko routine (about midway through a prep cycle ... reps and sets are reversed, so its squat for 1 set of 5, 2 sets of 4, etc.)

1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(34)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells “flies”10Х5.
4.Push ups with weight 10Х5.
5.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х5.(35)
6.”Good mornings” (standing) 5Х5.

looks easy on paper, but it takes about 2 and half hours to complete. a little under two if your well conditioned.

3) When should I do yoga (I'm pretty much a newb at that too)? I guess that elongating muscles to that extent is bad just before weights. What about a day before (training weights three times a week I only get alternate days rest)? What about immediately after (i.e. will that kind of stretching hamper my muscle recovery?)?

4) When should I do isometrics (and slow sloooow stance work)? As mentioned above the stance work I do is a hard workout in itself. It's a form of endurance. According to studies cited by Cosgrove and Schuler, aerobic endurance work interferes with weights for strength: if you do alternate days the gains are in endurance to the detriment of strength, so you should do it together with your weights, or after and before a full day's rest. So what about anaerobic endurance?

again . . . if you overthink this sh1t the stress alone will diminish your gains. if you just do something you'll gain something. if you just do something on the regular you'll start discovering what works best for you. its a learning process. the important thing to remember is that (excluding an upcoming competition) there's no end game so theres no reason to stress or rush results. no one wants to waste his time, but the odds of you completely zeroing out your gains by doing things in the wrong order are just about nill. im not saying to completely ignore the science, but you gotta seperate what happens on paper and what happens in the gym so you can actually enjoy training. all of this said, i'd be sure to lift fresh for the day. you want to full access to every contractile fiber you can muster while under the bar. i'd do cardio, yoga, and isometric/ma stuff after lifting or on alternate days. i don't think it matters much either way. there's a reason for the science - its not possible to be a world class powerlifter and a marathon runner at the same time. but if your goal is to be a well rounded strong and conditioned athlete you aren't going to waste your time experimenting.

also .. . i overthink everything . . including not overthinking things . .. its a problem of mine.

5) Sometimes I only get to train after say, 9:30 at night. If I follow John Berardi's diet guidelines, and those of various others, I should be eating a certain amount of carbs and protein every two hours at least three times to aid recovery/growth (the amount according to various calculations I've come across for my bodyweight of 82 kg is 68 g of carbs and 36 g of protein). If I train late at night I find:

a) I get really drained the next day... basically have to eat and sleep a lot. And/or

b) I get the gippy guts! I guess my body can't take that much protein! (Though this is only if I train late at night and try to squeeze in more nutrients than I would normally).

Anybody any advice for good ways of getting the right balance of nutrients if I train late at night... I dunno, slow release carbs/proteins...? Is it something that gets better as my body adapts more to this kind of heavy training? I don't want to have to give up training late because with my life it's the only time I have sometimes, but I can't help but feel that my training goes to waste if I don't eat right afterwards and feel washed out the next day.

i also have to train at 9:30 at night due to work and school. i personally prefer lifting in the evening vs. early in the morning, but i think i could adapt if i had to. i think your body will get used to it and you'll have better mornings afer a few weeks. diet is my weakest subject, but what i do is have a protein shake with milk, a banana, natural peanut butter, glutamine, and sometimes oats as soon as i can after lifting. then after my shower i try to have some eggs, cottage cheese, milk, tuna, or any combination of this before bed. if im really craving carbs ill have a few perogies. or a huge ass bowl of pasta that ill regret after eating it. often times i wash it all down with a couple samuel smith's taddy porters as well, so maybe you shouldnt listen to me.

[Mr Punch]

...but everything is better with hot sauce.

Lol, except the squits man, except the squits!

Here are a few suggestions to keep things fresh...try a heavy and a light day...one with fewer reps more weight and the opposite on light days...two change up the order in which you do your routiene...if you start with chest and back go to legs and arms..for example...keep shocking your body...it will fall into a comfort zone.

That stuff comes with the next period in my programme.

Cheers for the yoga advice.

I'm not sure about your source on Aerobic endurance and weight training...unless your a marathoner or triathlete, almost all the collegiate athletes do both quite effectively...that's something you might have to figure out on your own...I definitely think weight training is compatible with anaerobic exercise, sparring, boxing, martial arts etc.

Alwyn Cosgrove. I'll try and find the specific studies he quotes later.

Cheers for your help.

[Mr Punch]

if your not on a specific program, it doesnt really matter.

I am.

The programme at this point says 75 sec rest periods between the sets of the superset.

if you shorten the rest periods and do drop sets as described you'll stimulate growth. if you take your time and finish each set you'll stimulate strength gains. if you go by how your feeling for that day, you'll keep your body guessing. anywhich way you made it to the gym and theres a net gain. now if your on a specific program or have very specific goals that changes things. if your bodybuilding, shorter rests and drop sets are ideal for the most part (heavy sets have their place as well). if your concerned about nothing but strength, or your doing a program like sheiko, 5x5, smolov, etc. then you want to take as long as you need between sets.

Fair dos.

this is a sample sheiko routine (about midway through a prep cycle ... reps and sets are reversed, so its squat for 1 set of 5, 2 sets of 4, etc.)

Not yet thanks, baby!

looks easy on paper, but it takes about 2 and half hours to complete. a little under two if your well conditioned.

**** man, I'm getting better, but that ****'d take me two weeks.

. . . if you overthink this sh1t the stress alone will diminish your gains.

I don't overthink anything... except...

everything . . including not overthinking things . .. its a problem of mine.

but I sure as hell don't stress about it.

i think your body will get used to it and you'll have better mornings afer a few weeks.

THAT'S what I need to hear!

[Toby]

I'm not sure about your source on Aerobic endurance and weight training...unless your a marathoner or triathlete, almost all the collegiate athletes do both quite effectively...that's something you might have to figure out on your own...I definitely think weight training is compatible with anaerobic exercise, sparring, boxing, martial arts etc.

Alwyn Cosgrove. I'll try and find the specific studies he quotes later.

Yeah, anecdotally and IME this is definitely true. People do both but they bias towards one or the other. E.g. a sprinter won't do extensive aerobic work, a marathon runner won't do sprints and powerlifting. IME I'm definitely hit hard by HIIT for the rest of the day after I do it (which is why I do it in the evenings). OTOH my aerobic endurance is not affected so much by heavy lifting, although muscle soreness can affect the ability to perform aerobic activities. Dunno about American collegiate athletics but an example in Australia is the AFL (Australian football). In the off season players typically bulk up and peak at their lifting (although they do do a lot of aerobic stuff as well, just not as much as in the on season). In the on season they run a lot (in games) and lose strength and size. Some players show noticeable physique losses over the course of a season.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You ask too many questions all at once dude !!

In a nutshell:
Have you checked the sticky thread about strength?

Training to failure is an option and a great one IF:
You have very limited time
You are not training for a specific event
You have spotters or a power rack.
You actually CAN train to failure ( most don't).

I tend to not recommend training to failure on DL and Squats, for obivous reasons, but some do and get results, if you are not training to failure on them you must do more than 1 set.

I think the 5x5 protocol with 85%+ is one of the best methods out there, its simple and hits strength and even some hypertrohy.
Focus on the compounds and you don't need much more.

You can combine both, 5x5 on the compounds and failure on the "isolations" liek curls or on the BW exercises like dips, chins and push-ups.

Rest periods are based on what you are trying to "build", more rest, more strength, less rest, more muscular endurance and even anerobic ocnditoning if you are doing a "circuit".

Yoga is great for first thing in the morning or even after a workout, if you have the time.
There is a book, Yoga for athletes, get it.
Power yoga can also be a nice "sub" for ST once and awhile.

[golgo]

Lol, except the squits man, except the squits!

That stuff comes with the next period in my programme.

Cheers for the yoga advice.


Alwyn Cosgrove. I'll try and find the specific studies he quotes later.

Cheers for your help.

Is it safe to assume you are on New Rules of Lifting? I am also on it. The program is awesome.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

I am.

The programme at this point says 75 sec rest periods between the sets of the superset.

my bad man . .. i missed that part. in that case you just gotta consider the goals of the program and weigh them against your own.

[Mr Punch]

You ask too many questions all at once dude !!

Well, you musta gained some solace by only answering one of the ****ers then!

In a nutshell:
Have you checked the sticky thread about strength?

No I haven't actually, I just assumed it's one big long mess...

Training to failure is an option and a great one IF...

I'm not really actually training to failure except on benches and OPs. Like I said, the squats and deads are until I feel dizzy rather than until my muscles fail. BTW, I'd never had dizzy spells but they're pretty frequent and strong in the gym. Dunno if my heart isn't cut out for it or what, but I figure take it slow and easy.

I think the 5x5 protocol with 85%+ is one of the best methods out there, its simple and hits strength and even some hypertrohy.
Focus on the compounds and you don't need much more.

The 5x5 has always sounded good, but I don't think I'm ready for it yet, plus I'm enjoying the programme I'm on now. And all I do is compounds. You can see more on my blog.

Rest periods are based on what you are trying to "build", more rest, more strength, less rest, more muscular endurance and even anerobic ocnditoning if you are doing a "circuit".

I'm assuming that there's a good reason he has these specific rest periods for his various workouts. I mailed him to try and get some answers to my question (about the only thing that's unclear in the book) but they have a policy of not replying. I can see it: he's obviously too busy for q's from all his loyal buying idiot public.

Yoga is great for first thing in the morning or even after a workout, if you have the time.
There is a book, Yoga for athletes, get it.
Power yoga can also be a nice "sub" for ST once and awhile.

Cool. Thanks for the answer! I've done some yoga a long time ago in the past but nothing so long or serious: is 'Yoga for Athletes' going to help me as a supplement to the classes or is it too much hard work?

[Mr Punch]

Is it safe to assume you are on New Rules of Lifting? I am also on it. The program is awesome.

Yeah, that whole book rocks. I like it because it tells you the science and how to design your own programmes, and the cookie-cutter ones make more sense than any others I've seen. I'm right near the start still though, halfway through Fat-loss 1 from the "Eternal Beginners'" programme.

Yeah, anecdotally and IME this is definitely true. People do both but they bias towards one or the other. E.g. a sprinter won't do extensive aerobic work, a marathon runner won't do sprints and powerlifting. IME I'm definitely hit hard by HIIT for the rest of the day after I do it (which is why I do it in the evenings). OTOH my aerobic endurance is not affected so much by heavy lifting, although muscle soreness can affect the ability to perform aerobic activities. Dunno about American collegiate athletics but an example in Australia is the AFL (Australian football). In the off season players typically bulk up and peak at their lifting (although they do do a lot of aerobic stuff as well, just not as much as in the on season). In the on season they run a lot (in games) and lose strength and size. Some players show noticeable physique losses over the course of a season.

That's exactly what Cosgrove says, but backed up by a couple of studies.

my bad man . .. i missed that part. in that case you just gotta consider the goals of the program and weigh them against your own.

No worries, cheers for your input. I'm going for strict rest periods and taking one or two seconds' breather in between reps if I can't make it in one go.

[Toby]

I'm not really actually training to failure except on benches and OPs. Like I said, the squats and deads are until I feel dizzy rather than until my muscles fail. BTW, I'd never had dizzy spells but they're pretty frequent and strong in the gym. Dunno if my heart isn't cut out for it or what, but I figure take it slow and easy.

Blood pressure issue? Holding your breath during reps/sets? Hyperventilating? FWIW I hold my breath in heavy lifts, but I kind of inhale and while finishing the inhale start the rep and start the exhale while finishing the rep. So I breath properly but hold throughout the 1-3s (depending on lift) of each rep. Breathing throughout the rep wouldn't work for me on squats and DL because I need that constant abdominal pressure to support the load. Sets of 5 reps have never brought on dizziness for me AFAI can remember. I'd be a bit worried about dizziness - it's not enough to make you black out or lose balance is it? It'd be very worrying if there's potential to cause injury - even moderate weights can hurt. E.g. I've been lifting barefoot a lot lately and even a couple of kg/few lb could fuck up my foot.

[golgo]

Let me try and answer these questions through a NROL filter:

1) If I can't finish the required number of reps I've been changing down ASAP and finishing the number with a lower weight to go out on a high note. Is this a good idea?

According to NROL, the answer is no. Your goal is to increase SOMETHING during every workout (not everything). What this means, is that if on your last set you can't finish all of your reps, record it and try and beat that number next time. If you cant push out the required set of reps on EVERY or MOST sets, then you are using too much weight and should decrease the weight next time.

2) I can usually finish the reps with the weights I've chosen (though of course, sometimes it's struggle), but then I find 75 secs too short to recover so I'm not so strict in keeping to the recovery period. Is this bad? Should I choose slightly lighter weights so I can stick to the timing, should I just fight through it even if it means not being able to complete the final set, or am I OK in extending the rest period by 10-20 secs?

If you are on NROL fat loss, the rest periods are designed to keep "the fire burning." Increasing your rest periods is going to decrease the fat-burning effect of your workout and increase the time you are spending in the gym. I would really try to adhere to them if possible.

3) When should I do yoga (I'm pretty much a newb at that too)? I guess that elongating muscles to that extent is bad just before weights. What about a day before (training weights three times a week I only get alternate days rest)? What about immediately after (i.e. will that kind of stretching hamper my muscle recovery?)

I know very little about yoga. But generally stretching cools down your muscles rather than warming them up. I dont see a problem doing this after workouts or on recovery days.

4) When should I do isometrics (and slow sloooow stance work)? As mentioned above the stance work I do is a hard workout in itself. It's a form of endurance. According to studies cited by Cosgrove and Schuler, aerobic endurance work interferes with weights for strength: if you do alternate days the gains are in endurance to the detriment of strength, so you should do it together with your weights, or after and before a full day's rest. So what about anaerobic endurance?

I dont see this being an issue. This is more geared towards the person who spends hours training to be an endurance athelete (such as a long distance runner, cross country skier, etc). You shouldn't see much of a decrease in strength gains.

I am not trying to move you away from this forum, but on the Men's Health Magazine forums, there a lot of people who do NROL on there and you can get a lot of advice from people with way more experience than me. It has been a great resource for me in my fat-loss/strength gaining journey.