Yang Jwing-Ming's kung fu retreat?

[SPJ]

10 years of schooling or training programs are certainly admirable.

but the fortitudes and perseverance are from the students for the most part.

self motivation is the key.

"if you are curious, that is not enough."

"you have to have genuine interests, to persevere and then to excel (or to get good)."

quotes from one of my teachers.

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PRC wushu programs are from 5-6 years old to 15 to 16 years old.

Jet Li competed and won wushu GAMES at age of 13.

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RANDOM THOUGHTS ABOUT 10 YEARS OF ENDEAVOUR

[YMAA_com]

王世元 (Wang Shih-Yaun), you should come up and visit!

location

[YouKnowWho]

Thanks for the invitation. I may drop by next time I go to Redwood Forest National Park through Eureka (I live in Shell Beach near San Luis Obispo, Ca) if it will be OK with Dr. Yang.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Doesn't like Pak Mei Pai take like 10 yrs to master? I thought 10 years was the generally accepted time for a disciple to master a system, especially since students in martial arts schools can spend 15 - 20 yrs there without ever mastering their system.

I don't think you can put a time frame on "mastering" anything.
But what makes any system so inferior that it takes YEARS to be able to use if effectively?
I mean, people are using boxing, MT MMA, judo, kyokushin, etc, in months and in 3 years ( for example) the vast majority that do it regualrly can do it very well, certainly well enough to "fight with".

[David Jamieson]

I don't think you can put a time frame on "mastering" anything.
But what makes any system so inferior that it takes YEARS to be able to use if effectively?
I mean, people are using boxing, MT MMA, judo, kyokushin, etc, in months and in 3 years ( for example) the vast majority that do it regualrly can do it very well, certainly well enough to "fight with".

well...lol, actually after much study and some social experimentation, Malcolm Gladwell (and others upon whoes shoulders he stood) has actually put a time frame on mastery.

in the end, it's about 10,000 hours of dedicated practice.
or, 10 years in most cases.

Check out his books, they are quite good, well written and really well worked through. Admirable for articulating thoughts that otherwise wouldn't be.

[Mutant]

Agree with Mr. Jamieson on that (love the Gladwell reference, big fan myself), you may be functional and even proficient in three years in the arts discussed but no where near mastery in that time frame. gotta put your 10000 hours (thats all lol) in to be in that league.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well...lol, actually after much study and some social experimentation, Malcolm Gladwell (and others upon whoes shoulders he stood) has actually put a time frame on mastery.

in the end, it's about 10,000 hours of dedicated practice.
or, 10 years in most cases.

Check out his books, they are quite good, well written and really well worked through. Admirable for articulating thoughts that otherwise wouldn't be.

How about if I am doubly dedicated? LOL !"
Dude, I have a welding company, we do pressure vessels and pressure piping systems for steam and petrochemical, the welding is ASME hi pressure welding and every time I need to hire a welder I always get in quite a few people, all very qualififed over 10 15 tears and sometimes more and that is usually A LOT more than 10k hours in 10 years, double is more like it.
They all get shocked when they have to do a welders test and I can tell you this:
The majority FAIL it, yep, you heard me, FAIL the basic ASME welders test.
The last guy we have the passed it was a kid with only 5 years welding and only 3 under the ASME code.
He was by far, more of a "master" then any of those guys that were welding for far longer than he had been.

[Mutant]

Not everyone can even get to that level even if its 20 years, and many people put in lots of years, but without truly putting in the focused hours and may lack the prerequisite natural abilities. And then there's the prodigy scenario, but even they've got to put significant time in and still may take the 10000 hrs to truly be a 'master' of their craft.

[Faruq]

How about if I am doubly dedicated? LOL !"
Dude, I have a welding company, we do pressure vessels and pressure piping systems for steam and petrochemical, the welding is ASME hi pressure welding and every time I need to hire a welder I always get in quite a few people, all very qualififed over 10 15 tears and sometimes more and that is usually A LOT more than 10k hours in 10 years, double is more like it.
They all get shocked when they have to do a welders test and I can tell you this:
The majority FAIL it, yep, you heard me, FAIL the basic ASME welders test.
The last guy we have the passed it was a kid with only 5 years welding and only 3 under the ASME code.
He was by far, more of a "master" then any of those guys that were welding for far longer than he had been.

Sounds like those veterans can't pass that test, but that doesn't mean they're not master welders. Just means they haven't been studying in trade school for 10 to 15 or more years and have forgotten the stuff the fresh kid had last studied only 5 years ago. Now that's just what it sounds like, of course I'm no welder, and you own a welding company. But to give an example of something in a field I am familiar with, how many of us here on the forum are perfectly fluent in English but if we went to our kids' high school English class (or college English class for that matter) would get an A on a standard English test they happened to be giving the day we showed up. I mean how many of expressed every idea we needed to in English and got along fine pretty much every day using English (substitute native language for those raised in another country), but didn't get straight A's in English? My point, I think the 10 years do give the ability to use a skill effectively, whether a test can be passed or not. Just my opinion though, of course.

[YMAA_com]

王世元 (Wang Shih-Yaun), Yes. Just get in touch before visiting, but Dr. Yang would welcome your visit.

10-Year Program

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sounds like those veterans can't pass that test, but that doesn't mean they're not master welders. Just means they haven't been studying in trade school for 10 to 15 or more years and have forgotten the stuff the fresh kid had last studied only 5 years ago. Now that's just what it sounds like, of course I'm no welder, and you own a welding company. But to give an example of something in a field I am familiar with, how many of us here on the forum are perfectly fluent in English but if we went to our kids' high school English class (or college English class for that matter) would get an A on a standard English test they happened to be giving the day we showed up. I mean how many of expressed every idea we needed to in English and got along fine pretty much every day using English (substitute native language for those raised in another country), but didn't get straight A's in English? My point, I think the 10 years do give the ability to use a skill effectively, whether a test can be passed or not. Just my opinion though, of course.

My point is that you can't put a time frame of skill, dedication, talent, drive or anything else for that matter that is based on the individual.

On his death bead Ginchin Funakoshi performed a simple block and turned to the people there and said, " I think I am finally getting this one".
And he died.

Mastering ANYTHING takes a lifetime because as you change you must adapt and "relearn" and "remaster" what you are doing.

Fact is, saying that something takes 10000 hours of training to master means that it is just more complicated then something that takes 5000 or even more than something that takes 1000 and since when did "more complicated" = better in the MA ?

[David Jamieson]

My point is that you can't put a time frame of skill, dedication, talent, drive or anything else for that matter that is based on the individual.

On his death bead Ginchin Funakoshi performed a simple block and turned to the people there and said, " I think I am finally getting this one".
And he died.

Mastering ANYTHING takes a lifetime because as you change you must adapt and "relearn" and "remaster" what you are doing.

Fact is, saying that something takes 10000 hours of training to master means that it is just more complicated then something that takes 5000 or even more than something that takes 1000 and since when did "more complicated" = better in the MA ?

There will always be outliers (another Gladwell reference ) and you will find a prodigy here or there, but even then, it's probably safe to say that the learning started outside of a formal environment early on with these types.

Not so much training as dedicated practice. I see lots of guys who go and hit the training hall or gym for 2 solid hours an din that time they maybe get 45 minutes of work done. Then they tell others they hit the gym for a deuce! lol.

seriously, I know some of you guys know these types as well. 5-10 minutes in between sets with a lot of arm gazing and mirror checking lol.

but, if you do a 1 hour session of say, p90x you are doing something for every single second of that hour, even your breaks are ballistic stretching, water ups etc, you are always doing something. High intensity burst for 30-60-90 seconds with 15 second and 30 second rests in between bursts.

1 hour of that = 10 hours of the lazy minded gym attack.

[bawang]

instead of wasting time and money at that scam retreat this is what i do in my free time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbQMlYttVw

[taai gihk yahn]

instead of wasting time and money at that scam retreat this is what i do in my free time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbQMlYttVw

r u the dood in the white dress w the abe incoln hat? if so, u hav been invading my masterbashun dreems so stop it

[David Jamieson]

r u the dood in the white dress w the abe incoln hat? if so, u hav been invading my masterbashun dreems so stop it

wow! you too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGJVkByYyRA